Interest in 100 yard .22LR challenge?

The Wind coming over the back of the shelter and the wind coming towards the shed present problems that is difficult to interpret.
The theory behind building wind shelters on the prairies has a similar application as the wind rises approaching shelter and falls after passing.
A wind flag about five yards in front of the shooter that is fluttering down is a sign that it is not safe to shoot . . . the shot will go low while all the other wind flags are still.
When the wind flags are all facing the same direction is a time to pause as the wind coming and going over the shed will have adverse results.
It is not that the wind flags are lying but for that one unknown . . . much like a polygraph is based on the person reading the tests.
Side winds eliminates some of the effects from the swirls over the shed.
 
It will be interesting on Saturday when I gotta shoot thru the wind tunnel. You think that shooting with 20ft berms on 3 sides, the wind would just blow over? nope.
 
Walterfisher said:
I do not agree that one can only shoot well with wind flags. I have shot just as well or better with no wind flags, if I shoot when the wind is from a certain direction and a certain speed. Knowing when to shoot is important it is true, but knowing when not to shoot is even more important.
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The presence or absence of wind flags may have nothing to do with results. With or without them, if a shooter can't correctly account for changes in conditions, then he's not going to get the best results. And if a shooter isn't aware of wind or air movement, he can't possibly account for his results.
 
grauhanen said:
The presence or absence of wind flags may have nothing to do with results. With or without them, if a shooter can't correctly account for changes in conditions, then he's not going to get the best results. And if a shooter isn't aware of wind or air movement, he can't possibly account for his results.
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I am aware of the wind and air movement. I depend on the sighters to indicate the conditions in those instances.
 
Walterfisher said:
I am aware of the wind and air movement. I depend on the sighters to indicate the conditions in those instances.
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Indeed, sighters can be a substitute for wind flags when wind or air movement is steady and predictable. When they are not, sighters can't be dependable

In short, when winds are not steady and predictable, there's little alternative to either reading wind flags effectively, accepting wind-influenced results, or waiting for calm conditions that can be best confirmed with wind flags.
 
when wind or air movement is steady and predictable

That is a valid comment.
When my wind flags are showing either the white or black end of the ball is time to impose a "cease the resist to fire".

Maybe a sighter to suggest the "Flags are Lying" again.
 
The flags do indeed "lie". :)

On my local rimfire 50m range, we have no high flags on the edges of the range or on the berms. We have to use low flags in the flat shooting lanes and we are shooting in the air above the flags. I am convinced that winds up in the bullet path can be different than below the bullet path. What your flags are representing can be different depending on whether the air has even laminar flow, or chaotic turbulent flow.

Meanwhile wind coming across the 3 berms (back and 2 sides), and the shooting house (4th side), will definitely have induced turbulence, curling down into the range. Depending on its velocity and density, once down in the range and hitting the ground, it will then have to go somewhere, which may be in different directions.

As air flows down low into the range between the berms and shooting house, it will be forced back up when it hits the berm or shooting house, causing more chaotic turbulence.

Its basically a windy mess inside the bermed range!

To add to the chaos, between one side of our shooting house and the side berm is a big open gap for service vehicle access, which can be a wind tunnel on one side affecting several shooting lanes, whereas on the opposite side it could be quieter winds.

We can look at the grass, weeds and shrubs on the berms to gain clues, but that movement is difficult to interpret, and its not anywhere near the bullet paths.

Our shooting house is enclosed and we shoot through window ports. The ports in the middle lane benches block sideways views of the vegetation on the side berms. (I can't complain because its heated in winter! Yeah!). You can see the veg on the back berm, but it is of course much higher than the bullet's path.

Your only hope is to have as many flags out there, in as many different heights as possible. Unfortunately for my range, we only can have the low flags under the bullet's path.
 
That is a very good explanation Biologist. Your range sounds similar to where I shoot. There is almost never a steady and predictable wind. The bermed ranged is a giant wind box with turbulence everwhere. If I waited for ideal conditions I might never get to shoot - or maybe only twice a year.

One also has to keep in mind that line of sight and bullet trajectory are 2 different things, particulary if one is sending .22 rounds past 100 m.
 
Flags lie when they aren't in the best places or when they aren't interpreted appropriately.

When there's wind, unless it's steady and predictable, there are only a few options.
a) shoot and accept wind-influenced results, which are not especially useful.
b) shoot with enough wind flags and read them effectively.
c) shoot on another day.
 
I read about Charles Greer who recently set the 1000 yard heavy gun record in competition. 2.642" at 1000 yards for a 10 shot group. As soon as he determined the wind was steady, he fired the 10 shots as fast as he could accurately get them off (6-10 seconds per shot).

Q: What were conditions like when you shot that amazing 10-shot group?
Greer: On the day I shot the record-pending target I had the first relay. There was wind but it was light, maybe 4-5 mph and seemed steady. The flags were about halfway up to horizontal and seemed to be holding that way. My procedure is to shoot 5 sighter rounds, two to adjust my initial round on paper to the X-Ring and then three more during the last minute to check for changes in the wind. If these last three rounds stay in the Ten Ring it is usually a sign that the wind may be steady enough for me to shoot a good group. On the “record” day the last three sighters were right in or near the X-Ring and when the record target came up I quickly but carefully dumped my 10 rounds holding the scope dot right on the X. The wind apparently held absolutely steady, and I got the result you see on the target.
 
As my shooting season approaches its end, I took advantage of the calm morning yesterday. The following target showing ten-shot groups had some results that were hard to understand.

I'll leave it with "go figure".

 
grauhanen said:
As my shooting season approaches its end, I took advantage of the calm morning yesterday. The following target showing ten-shot groups had some results that were hard to understand.

I'll leave it with "go figure".

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I did a 20 shot group at 100 yesterday to check zero. No point for a picture, -5C means accurate shooting with SK is over for the year.
 
I tried Eley Match and Tenex Biathlon but some testing is still required but there was not much out there.
Lapua Polar Biathlon is slower and accuracy was poor.
An electric hand harmer or some hot packs in a container is almost as good . . . even better if you can load your mags and keep them in a shirt pocket.
Loading single shot, only five at a time worked.
 
horseman2 said:
I tried Eley Match and Tenex Biathlon but some testing is still required but there was not much out there.
Lapua Polar Biathlon is slower and accuracy was poor.
An electric hand harmer or some hot packs in a container is almost as good . . . even better if you can load your mags and keep them in a shirt pocket.
Loading single shot, only five at a time worked.
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Unfortunately we have a price limit to like 10$
 
emerson said:
I did a 20 shot group at 100 yesterday to check zero. No point for a picture, -5C means accurate shooting with SK is over for the year.
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It was about 5 - 6 degrees Celsius when I shot the other morning. That's about 41 - 43 Fahrenheit.

I've never found a temperature at which consistently accurate results at 100 with SK were achievable.

OkayShooter said:
What ammo would be better in colder weather? I still got 3 shoots left that will end up being in sub zero.
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In biathlon, where temps are usually very cool, biathlon-specific ammo is used. It is often characterized by faster MV's, different bullet shape (and sometimes size). Like all other match .22LR ammo, it's performance will vary by lot.

In colder temperatures, some shooters try to mitigate the temperature by using warm ammo, which they keep in a small cooler with a heat source. Others will ensure that their ammo is at ambient temperature and shoot it at the same temps as the air.
 
grauhanen said:
It was about 5 - 6 degrees Celsius when I shot the other morning. That's about 41 - 43 Fahrenheit.

I've never found a temperature at which consistently accurate results at 100 with SK were achievable.



In biathlon, where temps are usually very cool, biathlon-specific ammo is used. It is often characterized by faster MV's, different bullet shape (and sometimes size). Like all other match .22LR ammo, it's performance will vary by lot.

In colder temperatures, some shooters try to mitigate the temperature by using warm ammo, which they keep in a small cooler with a heat source. Others will ensure that their ammo is at ambient temperature and shoot it at the same temps as the air.
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I actually just got back from the range. It was 4 degrees. The first round and I just shot 2 weeks ago F class, it was 3" off to the right. But the gun wouldnt group with SK Standard or Eley Sport. I actually rage quit.
 
OkayShooter said:
I actually just got back from the range. It was 4 degrees. The first round and I just shot 2 weeks ago F class, it was 3" off to the right. But the gun wouldnt group with SK Standard or Eley Sport. I actually rage quit.
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That is normal for those ammos. SK LRM isn't really any better (in fact it is one of the worst for temp sensitivity in my rifles) or SK Biathlon. The only ammos that perform well in my rifles below 5 degrees are the higher end Eley and Eley Biathlons.
 
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