Interesting experience ref 762mmfirearms order

Claven2 said:
SEI made receivers as far back as 1986. Not sure if they do any longer?
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They're supposed to start making them again at some point... but it sure seems to be taking a while.

I think they did a run of something like 5000 in the 80's, you see them pop up every now and again on US forums. They're always pricey and never last very long.
 
From SEI's website, machined from billet - NOT forged = not milspec.

receiver10.jpg


They may have made a milspec receiver once, but not now.
 
Claven2 so you are saying that a company that produce's a rifle called "Crazy Horse" witch the American military pay's them to make from there surplus old rifles & re-heat treat the receivers plus add so many other part's that they make (that now have the NSN #'s) would some how produce a receiver that would not meet or exceed there government's testing is some what puzzling to me. Also didn't they just release it after the shot show? Plus aren't they also in the process of creating a new manufactured bolt witch would also have to go threw the same process? Doesn't testing require at least a year in field & in lab's before they are provided a NSN rating? Considering your vast experience in this field I am gathering you should know the answers to these questions.
 
tacticalfan said:
Just received a reply from John at SEI last week, in regards to my inquiry about how things are progressing with the bar stock receivers. He stated that they would be another 60 days.
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any discussions on price or civillian orders through liscenced FFL dealer stateside?
 
Satain said:
Claven2 so you are saying that a company that produce's a rifle called "Crazy Horse" witch the American military pay's them to make from there surplus old rifles & re-heat treat the receivers plus add so many other part's that they make (that now have the NSN #'s) would some how produce a receiver that would not meet or exceed there government's testing is some what puzzling to me. Also didn't they just release it after the shot show? Plus aren't they also in the process of creating a new manufactured bolt witch would also have to go threw the same process? Doesn't testing require at least a year in field & in lab's before they are provided a NSN rating? Considering your vast experience in this field I am gathering you should know the answers to these questions.
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Hi Satain,

You'd be surprised at my experience WRT material certification and NSN numbers. PM me offline if you need the details.

The fact is, milspec for an M14 receiver is very prescriptive. It calls for a hammer forging and even specifies the number of forming blows in the forge, the temperature you need to maintain and the tolerances, etc.

Despite what today's military may or may not accept from a manufacturer in wartime under shortage conditions, it is a FACT that SEI machines from billet and it is a fact that this is adeviation from the specification for the milspec M14 receiver. For all we know, the billet receiver may be a superior product - the US ordnance testing folks would have to answer that, but to use a billet receiver would require the Contractor to follow a process as follows:

1) The Contractor would need to seek pre-approval from the Equipment Record Number (ERN) holder at US DOD.
2) Assuming acceptance, the ERN holder would have to issue a revised Statement of quality Requirements (SOQR) to the Contractor.
3) The Contractor would have to produce Objective Quality Evidence (OQE) for US DOD and also a military certificate of conformity to specification, and
4) The US DOD would have to issue a Notice of Defect (ND) against the M14 receiver batch, listing the serial number ranges and heat treatment lot, to record a deviation from specification in case in-field service showed the non-milspec receivers to be problematic so they could potentially be recalled.

None of that is conjecture - it's how NATO military supply chains work - I've dealt with them personally for some time ;)

As for testing, no testing is required to certify an already approved design. What is required is that the company be audited for process control and incomming goods are QA checked against the specification. Periodic facility inspection is also mandatory. The ERN holder would decide if field testing were required or not prior to approving the acceptance of the deviation from spec.

Cheers.
 
M14Doctor said:
H2O or Different may correct me , but weren't the receivers SEI built up chinese ones?
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A couple years ago, Ron Smith was posting about the then newly relased Crazy Horse on War Rifles. If I recall, at the time when 2 I.D. was deploying, they indicated they had built a number of CH's and all were based on USGI receivers with the exception of two they built on select-fire Polytech receivers.

Presumably these were commercially acquired pre-ban guns from the US market since the US military has never contracted the Chinese for small arms. I would also assume that like all CH rifles I've seen to date, selector locks were fitted. (again, not sure why they would bother getting select fire Poly's for these builds since they aren't used in automatic, apart from maybe wanting to fill the cutout holes in the stocks!)

I also seem to remember the C-H mods were initially not US DOD sanctioned, they were bought and paid for using divisional funds for 2 I.D. specifically as some of their command had been in-theatre before and had recognized a deficiency in the DMR role. IMHO it's very likely that this is how/why Polytechs were acquired and used.

Now that the EBR and CH rifles are more standardized, I doubt that many (if any?) are still being made on Polytech receivers.

It would be most interesting to know what became of the two Poly's that first went over with 2 I.D. and how they helf up in field use. Probably just fine ;) The ASTM 5100 series steel the Poly receivers seems to be made from ought to be a very capable material for design purpose, asuming they were dimansionally right.
 
Claven 2 they are 8620;)

Originally posted by Different:

"I was given incorrect information from a credible source back in 2004.

For the bazillionth time, Chinese receivers are NOT made from high chromium series steel. Repeat, they are not made from 5100 series or 52100 steel. Ignore the 2004 article, please.

Chinese receivers are made from equivalent AISI 8620 steel. Smith Enterprise, Inc. examined and tested the first Poly Technologies receivers imported into the United States including some of the raw forgings. I have seen Polaroid photos of these first receivers and forgings at Smith Enterprise. Smith Enterprise, Inc., Keng's Firearms Specialty and Poly Technologies met twice for several days back in the 1980s to discuss receiver manufacturing.

If that is not good enough, Karl Maunz also had the Chinese receiver independently tested in the late 1980s while he was living in Georgia. Same result, steel that is equivalent to AISI 8620."

Post #148
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447915&page=15

As for durability check this out:
http://www.westtexasarmory.com/gunsmithing.htm He claims to have 50,000 rounds through his Polytech receiver with GI bolt, barrel and oprod (bottom of page).
 
J996 said:
Claven 2 they are 8620;)

Originally posted by Different:

"I was given incorrect information from a credible source back in 2004.

For the bazillionth time, Chinese receivers are NOT made from high chromium series steel. Repeat, they are not made from 5100 series or 52100 steel. Ignore the 2004 article, please.

Chinese receivers are made from equivalent AISI 8620 steel. Smith Enterprise, Inc. examined and tested the first Poly Technologies receivers imported into the United States including some of the raw forgings. I have seen Polaroid photos of these first receivers and forgings at Smith Enterprise. Smith Enterprise, Inc., Keng's Firearms Specialty and Poly Technologies met twice for several days back in the 1980s to discuss receiver manufacturing.

If that is not good enough, Karl Maunz also had the Chinese receiver independently tested in the late 1980s while he was living in Georgia. Same result, steel that is equivalent to AISI 8620."

Post #148
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447915&page=15
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I know M14 USGI receivers are AISI 8620 - Never said they weren't ;)

It's news to me though that the Chicom ones are also equivalent. They certainly are hard enough on the surface and ductile enough at the core to be properly heat treated 8620, so I don't find that difficult to believe.

I wonder how they tested them, it's VERY difficult to identify an alloy precisely, even using destructive testing. I'd be willing to bet they used a portable PMI probe as an NDT to narrow it down to "close enough".

I rather doubt China was standardized on AISI in the 1980's during the height of the cold war and when AISI was still widely regarded as an "American" standard. It's interesting Polytech would have copied AISI 8620 so closely.
 
Agreed. I'll take a Norc/Poly receiver over SAI cast junk ANY DAY.

My one complaint is I wish Polytech still roll-marked their M14S receivers on the heel instead of that gharish dot-matrix lettering on the sidewall.

They used to do it that way, not sure why they stopped?
 
762mmfirearms Bolt Order Update

I received an update today. I was told the bolt I ordered March 17th will be shipping the week of June 15th. Word is they had a military order to fill first. I asked about shipping to Canada and the reply was, "no problem." I look forward to providing an update.
 
J996 said:
I'm just happy we have such great receivers around for peanuts to build M14 clones with:D
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:agree:

Graeco said:
I received an update today. I was told the bolt I ordered March 17th will be shipping the week of June 15th. Word is they had a military order to fill first. I asked about shipping to Canada and the reply was, "no problem." I look forward to providing an update.
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You will sure be happy with the wait trust me;)
 
762mm: I cant seem to get them on the phone. When I ordered the first time you could still use the web checkout. Are you guys doing email orders or calling it in?
 
personally, I've been calling it in. They only seem to have two guys working around the phone who are also working on the shop floor and I often have to try several times per day to get a hold of someone. They only open at 11h00 EST.
 
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