ipsc black badge poll/question

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You kind of state the reasoning in your own post.

If you've taken one of the good "Tactical Pistol" courses out there,
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Problem is that most Boards wouldn't know which are the good courses from the bad courses. How can you expect them to sign off on a course that is an unknown quantity? The BB has 30 years of history behind it, and 30 years of graduates from the program that are all over Canada. I'm not saying that makes it best, but at least it's something that is familiar to most BoD's. I would love to see a standardized holster training program that was recognized across Canada other than the BB, but I'd also love to see the ban on >10 round magazines repealed. I think I'll be waiting a long time before I see either of them happen.
 
As a relatively new shooter in regards to holster sports I was glad I found a weekly class called skills and drills which made learning the art of drawing safe and fun. I attended multiple classes then went on to compete in IDPA and steel challenge with no hesitation or nervousness and when asked to show the head RO my draw and such he was very comfortable with my ability to safely navigate a course of fire that and he knew the instructor that taught the afore mentioned class. As for black badge, I am sure I will be getting that as I plan on competing in ipsc but for a basic holster course I don't see it as being the right set up for range certification.
 
All that is needed is for a couple of clubs to approach CSSA and ask them to offer a simple holster course. CSSA is seen by the cfo as a proper certifier agency and gives the clubs a standard they can walk into court with. Done. Simple. At least it works for Ontario where the cssa has a history and a presence. If CSSA is not interested then the PPC holster course is cheap and short and should be ok for the purpose. The BB course not appropriate as a club course.
 
I'm in BC and I've never seen one sniff of the CSSA. So in order for some association to step into as a certifying agency it would have to be better represented nationwide. Whereas, in every region you'll find a Black Badge instructor.
 
Silveragent said:
I'm in BC and I've never seen one sniff of the CSSA. So in order for some association to step into as a certifying agency it would have to be better represented nationwide. Whereas, in every region you'll find a Black Badge instructor.
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CSSA would work for the club in question, but you're right, a national solution is needed. Does the nfa not do any training out west?
IPSC is a little stretched as it is and they are considering adding rifle/shotgun courses for 3 gun.
 
I know one instructor who has added rifle to the Black Badge because here at Poco we are trying to get more multigun, albeit as club matches. As it is, not many are familiar at all with the IPSC books for Shotgun and Pistol.
 
Silveragent said:
I know one instructor who has added rifle to the Black Badge because here at Poco we are trying to get more multigun, albeit as club matches. As it is, not many are familiar at all with the IPSC books for Shotgun and Pistol.
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Yeah, that really needs to change. I was fortunate enough to be a member of a club where a fellow-member organizes IPSC rifle practice sessions whenever he can, so I had SOME exposure to it in addition to going up against some of the better guys in the province (looking at the scores is a humbling experience, though lol). Also, we had one rifle-only match and waiting to register for 2 rifle-shotgun matches.

My unfamiliarity with the shotgun resulted in me DQing myself from a recent 3gun match, so I could have benefited from long guns being included in the BB course.
 
BB wouldn't have helped you Ilija as "ditching" firearms is not part of IPSC competition.
Your lack of familiarity with your firearm would not have been helped as you should undertand it's functions before taking part in any kind of match.
 
It's not that I didn't understand the function.. More about comfort.. Used to detachable mag firearms, where you dump the source of ammo, cycle once, quick visual and that's it. It's not that I didn't do any loading/unloading before the match. Definitely did, just not enough.. A BB-style course would have involved a lot more, that would have helped my comfort level with it. Another thing about that shotgun is that a shell can "hide" where it can be missed by a quick look, so for next time I've learned to cycle at least one extra time and take a detailed look, even if it costs me a bit of time. Bottom line: I thought I was ready; I wasn't; learned something to keep things safe for next time around.

You are absolutely correct on the ditching part. It's not a part of IPSC and even though I've done enough handgun to rifle transitions playing other games, haven't done any whatever-shotgun-whatever transitions. Don't have the facilities to live-fire practice it, but will do more when it comes to dryfiring, with special emphasis on unloading safely.
 
A bb course wouldnt do anything for.this that practice couldnt. Buy or build some dummy rounds and practice ditching your long guns....

TRaTSeRiF said:
It's not that I didn't understand the function.. More about comfort.. Used to detachable mag firearms, where you dump the source of ammo, cycle once, quick visual and that's it. It's not that I didn't do any loading/unloading before the match. Definitely did, just not enough.. A BB-style course would have involved a lot more, that would have helped my comfort level with it. Another thing about that shotgun is that a shell can "hide" where it can be missed by a quick look, so for next time I've learned to cycle at least one extra time and take a detailed look, even if it costs me a bit of time. Bottom line: I thought I was ready; I wasn't; learned something to keep things safe for next time around.

You are absolutely correct on the ditching part. It's not a part of IPSC and even though I've done enough handgun to rifle transitions playing other games, haven't done any whatever-shotgun-whatever transitions. Don't have the facilities to live-fire practice it, but will do more when it comes to dryfiring, with special emphasis on unloading safely.
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This is ridiculous.

People are always talking about this will stop people shooting themselves, leo and military training exempts you blah blah blah.

You want to know the truth?

LEO and military are light years ahead of the people that think this required some retarded course. You want to know what military and leo training for holsters is?

When your holster is issued to you, they hand it to you. They show you how to deactivate the retention devices and you walk away. Training over.

And yet the streets are not running with blood and people aren't shooting themselves or others like many here seem to think is happening with "untrained" people using holsters. Give your head a shake, unless you support sling courses, walking with a loaded gun courses, holding a gun because I don't have holster course course and not forgetting to breath while shooting course. You need to take a hard look at your position and think about the real reasons your support this BS, whether its you have a financial stake in it or some comical theory that this will increase the ranks of your sport.

Shawn
 
Onagoth said:
A bb course wouldnt do anything for.this that practice couldnt. Buy or build some dummy rounds and practice ditching your long guns....
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Already got some for all my guns and I will follow the advice that you and mrclean gave me. Primarily to keep things safe in the future and also because, while watching a match is fun, shooting the entire match is even more fun.
 
if the instructor teaching the black badge course is ADDING cirriculum to the course (such as 3 gun stuff) he is exceding his lesson plan and going out of the approved black badge course material..... from what i understand ipsc canada does not like it instructors winging it.

should be taught seperatly and with nothing to do with the black badge pistol course.
 
Redlight35 said:
So just for the fun of it, lets think about another option to the BB course.

If you've taken any of the good "Tactical Pistol" courses out there, you know that you are taught how to safely draw, fire and re-holster a pistol in a variety of situations. Although it doesn't include all the rules of IPSC, why doesn't that type of training meet a range's standard for holster use in their ranges?

Not trying to get anyone mad, just asking an honest question. I'm looking to move, and although I have never taken a BB course, I have taken several tactical courses. This is good enough for holster use at my current range, but may not meet the requirements after I move.
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I am with Redlight on this. If a range requires you to have BB before you can use a holster on their range. how does this make sense? So for those of us who have no interest in IPSC but shoot 3 gun, and train are not allowed to holster our pistols?

Curious because I have never taken BB. Do they teach using cover and shooting from cover on BB?

I am going to draw a conclusion here......

So even though I have extensive holster training, from reputable trainers, competed at the national level, and carried a holstered pistol on more than 1 overseas missions, I would not be allowed to holster my pistol at these ranges because I don't have a BB? Sounds more like a money grab for someone at the range who is a BB instr!!
 
Jay T said:
I am with Redlight on this. If a range requires you to have BB before you can use a holster on their range. how does this make sense? So for those of us who have no interest in IPSC but shoot 3 gun, and train are not allowed to holster our pistols?

Curious because I have never taken BB. Do they teach using cover and shooting from cover on BB?

I am going to draw a conclusion here......

So even though I have extensive holster training, from reputable trainers, competed at the national level, and carried a holstered pistol on more than 1 overseas missions, I would not be allowed to holster my pistol at these ranges because I don't have a BB? Sounds more like a money grab for someone at the range who is a BB instr!!
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Although I agree with most of what you wrote, I don't think it is a money grab. Black Badge is there for a good reason but you should be able to challenge it and it also should not be the only recognised certification in town.
 
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shawn said:
You want to know the truth?

LEO and military are light years ahead of the people that think this required some retarded course.
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If that were really true, why are many of the best ipsc/uspsa shooters teaching LEO and military? If they were light years ahead, they wouldn't need our help.

Clubs can make their own rules and having to have a black badge is better than not being allowed to use holsters at all. They should consider just doing a short holster course though instead of the whole black badge course, that would make better sense.

I would always rather be on the line with someone who took a BB course than another person who already knows everything.
 
kanada kidd said:
If that were really true, why are many of the best ipsc/uspsa shooters teaching LEO and military? If they were light years ahead, they wouldn't need our help.

Clubs can make their own rules and having to have a black badge is better than not being allowed to use holsters at all. They should consider just doing a short holster course though instead of the whole black badge course, that would make better sense.

I would always rather be on the line with someone who took a BB course than another person who already knows everything.
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LOL ok sure so you think that police and military are seeking the council of competition shooters to teach them how to use a holster :rolleyes:

Or maybe just maybe they are trying to bring their shooting doctrine into this century. And just FYI I have meet and talked at length with the sole person responsible for the modernization of the CF shooting doctrine, so maybe you should know about what you speak first.

Shawn
 
HeadDamage said:
Black badge is a waste of time.
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For one, BB course is an attitude check. It shows that person is serious about shooting competition and also demonstrating patience and respect to other people around him at the range.

Another reason it was created is to remove liability on any accidents from IPSC Canada, organization that is backing up IPSC shooting sport in Canada.

If you have no interest in shooting IPSC, you have no need in BB course. But if you're serious, take the course, learn what you can from it and move on. You wasted more time mumbling about it on the forums.
 
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