IPSC Ontario classification system
- Thread starter JohnMc
- Start date
SVISTI1911
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kitchener, Ontario
My real vote it for Madness's suggestion in the can of worms thread. You know the one with the shotgun.....
ICS is a joke.
Who cares if someone wants to be a Master and isn't qualified? Who does it hurt?
If they want to end up being under 75% at a level 2 or level 3 with a Master classification, then they are they only ones looking stupid. They won't affect anyone elses classification either. No harm done except to themselves.
However, if the ICS system is in place, then it leaves the door wide open for sandbaggers to win their class at all level 2's and possibly a level 3 or two without moving up. That hurts everyone else in that class.
Think about it.
Learn about the systems before you vote.
Who cares if someone wants to be a Master and isn't qualified? Who does it hurt?
If they want to end up being under 75% at a level 2 or level 3 with a Master classification, then they are they only ones looking stupid. They won't affect anyone elses classification either. No harm done except to themselves.
However, if the ICS system is in place, then it leaves the door wide open for sandbaggers to win their class at all level 2's and possibly a level 3 or two without moving up. That hurts everyone else in that class.
Think about it.
Learn about the systems before you vote.
40cal said:
Well actually...they do affect everyone elses Classifiction which the the root of the problem...
One Soft GM (who is current) and one soft M (who is current) can show up to a Level 2 and presto...another soft classifier and another handfull of people (who may actually care) with Classifictions that are above their current skill level...
That's what we're trying to fix...
If we are going to change the system we have one is the best of the three options.
Remember this IPSC ONTARIO not IPSC Ottawa area or IPSC Toronto Area.
For any option to work it must be fair for everybody in the province not just for people in a geographic area.
If option 2 or 3 are in place what about people in a place like Thunder Bay?
I do not believe it to be fair that some one be punished for were they live.
Example: Joe Blow from thunder bay that likes shooting IPSC pays his membership just like everybody else in IPSC Ontario. Under option 3 If Joe Blow wants to get classed he has two options
1) Spend $600.00 and fly to the nearest Level 3 or drive 15 hours to the level 3.
2) Stay home and hope that he smokes the level 2 ( If they can get 2 GM's to come to there match ) and beats both GM's . Then once he has done that he now has to smoke the ICS stages. After he has done all that the best he can do is the absolute best he can do is 60% because he can not afford the $600.00 air fair or the 30 hour drive to the nearest level 3.
Now that is fair for Joe Blow that has paid the same doe's as everybody else in Ontario.
The thing that keeps getting missed is this MUST BE FAIR FOR EVERYBODY IN ONTARIO. You might not like the system but it is the fairest for everybody.
Remember this IPSC ONTARIO not IPSC Ottawa area or IPSC Toronto Area.
For any option to work it must be fair for everybody in the province not just for people in a geographic area.
If option 2 or 3 are in place what about people in a place like Thunder Bay?
I do not believe it to be fair that some one be punished for were they live.
Example: Joe Blow from thunder bay that likes shooting IPSC pays his membership just like everybody else in IPSC Ontario. Under option 3 If Joe Blow wants to get classed he has two options
1) Spend $600.00 and fly to the nearest Level 3 or drive 15 hours to the level 3.
2) Stay home and hope that he smokes the level 2 ( If they can get 2 GM's to come to there match ) and beats both GM's . Then once he has done that he now has to smoke the ICS stages. After he has done all that the best he can do is the absolute best he can do is 60% because he can not afford the $600.00 air fair or the 30 hour drive to the nearest level 3.
Now that is fair for Joe Blow that has paid the same doe's as everybody else in Ontario.
The thing that keeps getting missed is this MUST BE FAIR FOR EVERYBODY IN ONTARIO. You might not like the system but it is the fairest for everybody.
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40cal said:
I think it's you who needs to learn about not just classification, but sport in general.
Who does it hurt?? It rewards lazy, unskilled people, and gives them no incentive to improve themselves. They are the ones most hurt, as their inflated heads become an obstacle to improvement. It denies any recognition to shooters who work and train hard, travel to all the matches and who rise above. It denies goals, the true motivation for all sportspeople.
In other words, it hurts everyone.
To put it in perspective, there is only one real live GM in all of Ontario, and only 2 in all of Canada, and the second one, D.I. from BC does not shoot anymore.
DUH, I feel like an idiot.
I was only thinking about production and open for a second...........
GM and M seem to be very close. is there anyone that can say they are GM in ALL divisions in Canada
ie: I may be a B in production, but I am certainly not in Standard. Revolver I would be lucky to make bottom of C.
I think the important thing to remember is that no system is perfect, and we have to remember that new shooters are more important to the sport growing than satisfying ego's. Majority of shooters are in D and C class = fact.
I was only thinking about production and open for a second...........GM and M seem to be very close. is there anyone that can say they are GM in ALL divisions in Canada
ie: I may be a B in production, but I am certainly not in Standard. Revolver I would be lucky to make bottom of C.I think the important thing to remember is that no system is perfect, and we have to remember that new shooters are more important to the sport growing than satisfying ego's. Majority of shooters are in D and C class = fact.
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Exactly what's your point? How does lying to people help the sport grow?maurice said:
Are you saying we have to make lower class shooters feel better about themselves by blowing smoke up their asses? Sounds like you have no respect for them. Are you trying to satisfy THEIR egos?
Newsflash: Reality sucks!
.......not everyone thinks like you. "NO SYSTEM IS PERFECT" is what you may have missed in my previous post. I am also thinking of new shooters as I am relatively new, so respect that.
What I am saying is that in order to encourage new shooters, we should recognize their level of experience and proficiency, like just MANY other sports.
ie; how about a martial arts competition, level or skill and experience are recognized via "different colored belts". I believe they also recognize overall placing.
You are climbing up the wrong tree my friend, again, I am thinking about getting more people into shooting sports.
Reality sometimes does suck, but it can also be rewarding.
It can get fustrating shooting in matches against some of the more experienced shooters. In my case it makes me want to practice to do better. For really new shooters in D and sometimes C class, they can compare themselves to how the other new shooters are doing, and then think about what they may need to practice......
On another note, did you think you have an ego..? I wasn't personally attacking you,.....but I guess you took it that way.
What I am saying is that in order to encourage new shooters, we should recognize their level of experience and proficiency, like just MANY other sports.
ie; how about a martial arts competition, level or skill and experience are recognized via "different colored belts". I believe they also recognize overall placing.
You are climbing up the wrong tree my friend, again, I am thinking about getting more people into shooting sports.
Reality sometimes does suck, but it can also be rewarding.
It can get fustrating shooting in matches against some of the more experienced shooters. In my case it makes me want to practice to do better. For really new shooters in D and sometimes C class, they can compare themselves to how the other new shooters are doing, and then think about what they may need to practice......
On another note, did you think you have an ego..? I wasn't personally attacking you,.....but I guess you took it that way.
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you know what this is starting to sound like? People want to have A system which will be FAIR and someone who never shoots at any big matches could use to classify himself against others...
So we're talking about having the ability to accurately measure someone's skill against someone else's, REGARDLESS if THAT particular skill matches what we do in IPSC matches... I mean, ICS? Why not just setup bullseye style matches, and have everyone shoot those? Those are much easier to setup, easy to mark, easy to compare how people do to others... Sure, the ability to do well in a bullseye match doesn't really translate into winning IPSC matches, but why not? No movement... no mag changes... no stage strategy thinking... no tactics... no shooting on the move... no setups and takeoff...
ohh, yeah, using ICS stages (especially those ICS stages which are most likely to show up at matches) addresses all those, eh?
I really find it funny that some people are forcing this change though on the bases on us needing a system which will produce ACCURATE class/match results, and then they are pushing an idea which doesn't measure/take into consideration how people do in matches at all!!
So we're talking about having the ability to accurately measure someone's skill against someone else's, REGARDLESS if THAT particular skill matches what we do in IPSC matches... I mean, ICS? Why not just setup bullseye style matches, and have everyone shoot those? Those are much easier to setup, easy to mark, easy to compare how people do to others... Sure, the ability to do well in a bullseye match doesn't really translate into winning IPSC matches, but why not? No movement... no mag changes... no stage strategy thinking... no tactics... no shooting on the move... no setups and takeoff...
ohh, yeah, using ICS stages (especially those ICS stages which are most likely to show up at matches) addresses all those, eh?
I really find it funny that some people are forcing this change though on the bases on us needing a system which will produce ACCURATE class/match results, and then they are pushing an idea which doesn't measure/take into consideration how people do in matches at all!!
ICS doesn't just use an ICS stage, Your % from a level 3 or higher is used aswell. Once ICS ditches the float it will be up to par with the USPSA sytem, which uses stages and major matches. There are ICS stages which test setup, takeoff ,shooting on the move, mag changes, and stategic thinking. So there goes that argument.
