JARD J180 , new NR but no distributors carry em ?

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zak88 said:
This looks like it’s going the way of the No Dak/Spud
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It hasn't been that long yet, and I don't blame Sylvestre if they want to plan their pre order process carefully.

Jard posted the following on Facebook on April 14

Jard on Facebook said:
BIG NEWS!!!!

Canadians are giving each other high-fives because their government has officially approved of our J180...

We will only be importing through Sylvestre Sporting Goods Guns and
Outdoors. There is no time-table for when we will be importing.
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Ok im an AR newb here. help me understand?

is this basically an NR receiver that allows you to use AR parts.

Ive been eyeing a 180 but always looking for options. would this be more expensive or less expensive than 180?
 
Jmcc said:
Ok im an AR newb here. help me understand?

is this basically an NR receiver that allows you to use AR parts.

Ive been eyeing a 180 but always looking for options. would this be more expensive or less expensive than 180?
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There is no confirmed information about this rifle at all. Right now you would be better buying a 180 as this rifle may never get here or may arrive in 6 months to 3 years.
 
Jmcc said:
Ok im an AR newb here. help me understand?

is this basically an NR receiver that allows you to use AR parts.

Ive been eyeing a 180 but always looking for options. would this be more expensive or less expensive than 180?
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Sylvestre will be selling both complete rifles and builder kits (receiver, BCG, bolt, return springs/rails, charging handle and trigger included). The kit allows the use of more donor AR parts and less proprietary parts then the WX-MCR kit, since a gas tube is used instead of a piston. Conversely, the MCR is now a matured platform, while the J180's direct impingement in combination with the 180 recoil harvesting system is a big unknown, as is the quality of the Jard product itself, as they have had issues with past products.

Jard lists the price of a complete firearm on their site is $1,129.95 USD; the price after currency conversion and Sylvestre adds the amount to recoup their import and other costs and profit remains unknown.
 
Ustauk said:
Sylvestre will be selling both complete rifles and builder kits (receiver, BCG, bolt, return springs/rails, charging handle and trigger included). The kit allows the use of more donor AR parts and less proprietary parts then the WX-MCR kit, since a gas tube is used instead of a piston. Conversely, the MCR is now a matured platform, while the J180's direct impingement in combination with the 180 recoil harvesting system is a big unknown, as is the quality of the Jard product itself, as they have had issues with past products.

Jard lists the price of a complete firearm on their site is $1,129.95 USD; the price after currency conversion and Sylvestre adds the amount to recoup their import and other costs and profit remains unknown.
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let me know if i have this right?

so if you had an AR suck in the safe with lots of donor parts its likely a good deal but for a complete gun i "may" be better off just going with the 180

and thanks for the detailed reply above!
 
Ustauk said:
Sylvestre will be selling both complete rifles and builder kits (receiver, BCG, bolt, return springs/rails, charging handle and trigger included). The kit allows the use of more donor AR parts and less proprietary parts then the WX-MCR kit, since a gas tube is used instead of a piston. Conversely, the MCR is now a matured platform, while the J180's direct impingement in combination with the 180 recoil harvesting system is a big unknown, as is the quality of the Jard product itself, as they have had issues with past products.

Jard lists the price of a complete firearm on their site is $1,129.95 USD; the price after currency conversion and Sylvestre adds the amount to recoup their import and other costs and profit remains unknown.
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Is this new rifle a true DI gun, or is it using some sort of internal gas piston system like the AR does?
 
Jmcc said:
let me know if i have this right?

so if you had an AR suck in the safe with lots of donor parts its likely a good deal but for a complete gun i "may" be better off just going with the 180

and thanks for the detailed reply above!
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I would say "May" would be a good term to apply to whether this would be a good deal for using parts from a prohibited donor will depend on the availability, price, and quality of the product.

If you don't mind rowing your own charging handle, some recipient alternatives are the manual action SBI LPC or MRA Renegade receiver, both of which allow re-use of AR parts, and no major issues have been noted with either.
 
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Ustauk said:
I would say "May" would be a good term to apply to whether this would be a good deal for using parts from a prohibited donor will depend on the availability, price, and quality of the product.

If you don't mind rowing your own charging handle, the manual action SBI LPC or MRA Renegade receiver; both allow re-use of AR parts, no major issues have been noted with either.
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I want an NR- Semi and trying to figure what the best option is quality/price etc. I don't have a donor in the safe (but friends do so this may be good for them)
 
Suther said:
Is this new rifle a true DI gun, or is it using some sort of internal gas piston system like the AR does?
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The J180 looks like a traditional AR-15 from the barrel and handguard forward, using an AR-15 gas tube to transmit force into the receiver, rather then a piston. This means handguard clearance tolerances are identical to the AR-15 and almost any handguard could be used, unlike with the more limited, clearance restricted selection for piston 180 rifles.

Internally in the J180 receiver, the gas injection directly shoves the bolt back, but instead of the energy being stored in a buffer tube located return spring, the BCG pushes back 180 style dual springs on dual guide rods to store and then release the energy. An interesting , novel variant, and I'm curious to see how it functions in the wild.
 
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Ustauk said:
The J180 looks like a traditional AR-15 from the barrel and handguard forward, using an AR-15 gas tube to transmit force into the receiver, rather then a piston. This means handguard clearance tolerances are identical to the AR-15 and almost any handguard could be used, unlike with the more limited, clearance restricted selecting for piston 180 rifles.

Internally in the J180 receiver, the gas injection directly shoves the bolt back, but instead of the energy being stored in a buffer tube located return spring, the BCG pushes back 180 style dual springs on dual guide rods to store and then release the energy. An interesting , novel variant, and I'm curious to see how it functions in the wild.
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So then yes, it IS a true DI gun. Which means its going to get real dirty pretty fast...?
 
Ustauk said:
Agreed, with the DI, the gun will definitely get dirty much faster in the receiver then a piston 180.
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How many successful DI guns have there been? The only true DI gun I can even think of is the AG42 and its relatives (hakim, rasheed). There must be a reason nobody uses it...
 
Suther said:
How many successful DI guns have there been? The only true DI gun I can even think of is the AG42 and its relatives (hakim, rasheed). There must be a reason nobody uses it...
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Not sure if you're joking, but almost every AR-15 and AR-10 work on direct impingement; with a regular AR15, the return spring is hidden away from the exhaust gas in the buffer tube; the 180 return springs and guide rods in the J180 will be more exposed to the exhaust gas and associated particulate waste, being in the receiver proper; whether this causes any issues remains to be seen.

Edit: I'm an idiot, according to TFB the bolt carrier acts as an internal piston, making the AR-15 and AR-10 not true DI designs

TFB TV Youtube Channel said:
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Ustauk said:
Not sure if you're joking, but almost every AR-15 and AR-10 work on direct impingement; with a regular AR15, the return spring is hidden away from the exhaust gas in the buffer tube; the 180 return springs and guide rods in the J180 will be more exposed to the exhaust gas and associated particulate waste, being in the receiver proper; whether this causes any issues remains to be seen.

Edit: I'm an idiot, according to TFB the bolt carrier acts as an internal piston, making the AR-15 and AR-10 not true DI designs
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Nope, you're not an idiot - AR's are frequently (almost always) referred to as DI.
 
Here's Forgotten Weapons take on the DI and Stoner AR15/10 Gas System. I'll let someone who's an expert here look at the takedown video for the J180 and try and figure out if it is a "true" DI. Of course, a certain large, cantankerous herd animal being called a bison by scientists doesn't stop people from calling it a buffalo :)


Forgotten Weapons YouTube Channel said:
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ponymusic said:
Nope, you're not an idiot - AR's are frequently (almost always) referred to as DI.
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That's nice. They're not truly DI guns though. They're a short stroke gas piston system where the piston is located in the bolt carrier. If the AR was a real DI gun then there wouldn't be any need for a gas key, gas rings, etc.

edit - Gun Jesus agrees, "The AR15 and the AR10 are often referred to as direct impingement firearms, however this is not correct, their operating system is actually a clever gas piston system."
 
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