jb bore paste

bearhunter said:
Dan posted "I do not believe that a polished bore will enhance copper streaking-it's total BS.".
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I shoot benchrest..custom guns..and a polished barrel do not or almost do not retain any copper.
I shoot a .30BR -115 grains at 3150 fps. NO copper in the bore. My Bartlein barrel is cleaned every 20 rounds..shiny like chrome..

This is facts..polished barrel copper out way less or not at all.
And yes..I use a borescope to make sure it’s squeaky clean.
I use this below + JB as needed on all my guns.
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DANS40X said:
I do not believe that a polished bore will enhance copper streaking-it's total BS.

How is a smoother surface going to streak more copper that a rough surface-total BS
aka cut vs button/broached
Which one shoots/cleans easier?

A Gradient Lens Bore Scope tells NO LIES!
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The same way wringing gage blocks together works. Physics.
 
Johnny - Lots of good info from Dan Lilja. I searched a bit on the Lilja site (thanks for mentioning him :) ) and couldn't find mention of 320g re Lapping. That article may be 'gone' now? I did find mention of 320g re the exterior : ". . . The finishing step to a Lilja barrel is exterior polishing. All barrels are polished with 320 grit finish. “It’s a real messy job,” Lilja said. “That’s why we do it in a shed out back.” . . . maybe that's what was on your mind ?
AND ->
http s://riflebarrels.com/barrel-fouling/ - ". . . And though it may surprise some, lapping to a finer finish will result in an increase in fouling. A barrel can be too smooth. . . " - He doesn't explain 'How/Why' too smooth, but does refer to it in the FAQs - ". . . Another factor in surface finish has to do with its smoothness. While it is very desirable to have a finish running parallel to the rifling, the finish can be too smooth. In our extensive testing we found that a lapped barrel could be made too smooth and that these super smooth barrels would foul more than our conventionally lapped barrels. . . ". He infers that increased friction due to smooth surfaces may be a factor.
AND SEE Para-9 of the 'fouling article RE abrasives and 'over-cleaning.

However, RE 'Break-in' of Center-fire he also says " . . . Do use a bronze brush. (Lilja's Bold) Some shooters and gunsmiths have the mistaken idea that a bronze brush will harm a barrel. It will not cause any damage to a barrel and the use of a bronze brush is necessary to remove all fouling. Substituting a nylon brush will not remove fouling as effectively as a bronze brush. . . "

Tho there is no mention of it, I'd assume there is a point where Brass brushes can be 'over-done' and definitely likely if run in a drill ;) ;)
 
Dans40X - It didn't (and maybe not yet) make perfect sense to me either, but D-lilja says so . . .
SEE post #46 above.
 
Bob Forslund told me he used J-B for the final lapping of his bullet dies. I have used it on a lead lap for mildly rough bores. It IS abrasive; just not aggressively so. 400 grit Clover compound is good if a bore is uniform and you want to improve surface finish. If I'm having to alter dimensions to any extent, I'll use a 240 grit compound. I have used diamond dust and it cuts FAST. Useful to alter dimensions but too aggressive as a polish.
400 grit on a patch will do a good job as a polish. Used in combination with fine steel wool, it will quickly remove sharp edges.
Abrasives are useful to condition a barrel but one must be aware that they do remove material.
I am not a superfan of the chemical cleaners. I still use Hoppes with nitro benzene, and may not be considered all that progressive!
 
Both Bob and his twin brother Al used JB Bore Paste to clean nasty fouling issues until they won a case of IOSSO at a shoot in Washington.

Then they switched.

They also liked Butch's Bore Shine and Sweet's 7.62.

It was only a few years before Al passed that Wipe Out became available and he refused to change what was working for him, until the folks in the competitive winner's circles started to experiment with it and give revues. Sadly, Bob passed a few years after Al. Both had genetic heart issues.

Al and Bob were mentors of mine and we spent a lot of hours hunting/shooting/in the machine shop. I miss both of them a lot.
 
I saw a pic of bore damage posted by frank Green of bartlein barrels. It had horrible deep scratches which he attributed to jb bore cleaner used with a bronze brush. I know that that damage cannot be made how he said it was, people bring frank Green their ruined barrels and tell him lies about what they did to them. I don't pay much attention to frank greens anecdotal knowledge
 
porpoise said:
I saw a pic of bore damage posted by frank Green of bartlein barrels. It had horrible deep scratches which he attributed to jb bore cleaner used with a bronze brush. I know that that damage cannot be made how he said it was, people bring frank Green their ruined barrels and tell him lies about what they did to them. I don't pay much attention to frank greens anecdotal knowledge
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It wasn’t JB I don’t think. It was another abrasive product.
 
I think you are talking about his latest post on the subject where he blames thoroclean. Where the scope foto shows the bore worn out. I could not find the original one where he posted a barrel with the deep scratches so I couldn't check exactly what he said, but I found another one with a pic with deep scratches which he said was the result of wire brush and abrasive cleaner. Later on in the thread he said he had contacted the owner and the owner had tried to firelap the barrel with some kind of abrasive. The kind of damage was completely different from what he showed in his later thread about thoroclean. There is a lot of confusing stuff and if you hadn't used jb bore cleaning compound I think you would be misinformed by reading his stuff
 
bearhunter said:
Hmmmm, that's a new one.

However, every once in a while, I will use automotive cylinder bore cleaner to remove the carbon. Usually, Hoppe's is enough.

Under every layer of Copper there will be a thin layer of carbon. The Wipe out gets rid of the copper and usually the carbon.

How often are you cleaning?????? After 30+ rounds, some rifles have several layers of carbon and copper that can be difficult to remove.
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There are carbon derivates that are way harder than steel. Some derive from processes that include quite a bit of heat and higher pressures which is both present in firearms when "the thing goes off", so to speak.

Hence, if you want to remove hard carbon residues in a barrel/chamber with the jb stuff you're out of luck...
 
riversrest said:
There are carbon derivates that are way harder than steel. Some derive from processes that include quite a bit of heat and higher pressures which is both present in firearms when "the thing goes off", so to speak.

Hence, if you want to remove hard carbon residues in a barrel/chamber with the jb stuff you're out of luck...
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Tell that to the competitors who have used JB Bore Cleaning Paste successfully since the 1960's...
 
guntech said:
Tell that to the competitors who have used JB Bore Cleaning Paste successfully since the 1960's...
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You beat me to it.

Not only that, if anyone has such carbon fouling as you assert to, they're waiting far too long between cleanings.

I don't believe I've ever seen carbon fouling so bad that it can't be dissolved or removed with most popular products.

The few times I've seen what appears to be very nasty carbon buildups has usually turned out to be from cupro-nickel jacket bullets, which is solvent resistant and seems to bond with carbon in the most aggravating manner.

I'm shooting Norma Oryx bullets out of a few rifles, and I made the mistake of shooting to many before cleaning out the jacket fouling in my 8x57.

I had to resort to my diminishing supply of Motty's Bore Paste to get all of the fouling out.

Motty's is very aggressive and it was purposely made up back before WWI just for this sort of fouling. I don't believe it's still available.
 
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