Jus' Wondering... Deploying to A'stan... What optic would you choose for C7A1 / C8

you must have grabbed a Elcan off a C9 since we all still had Iron Sight C7's
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Huh! lol Indeed after reading your post i went and looked at some old pics and you're right (i must be getting old), We did not have it then but i still beated the hell out of mine (beated the entire smoke pole actually) later on and it never let me down.
Ben and two other guys in the 6_ callsigns where the only guys with ELCAN's
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indeed i recall we use to call him transformer as just about every peice ofkit he had was modified. He also had a bipod.
 
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I'm running an ACOG TA31 with DoD BAC reticle,so far it's been excellent from the close quarters of Panjaway to the open ranges of the mountains to the north,the ACOG and a folding BUIS is an excellent choice as far as I am concerned. Of course I have yet to experience a S&B Short Dot (soon though).
The EOTech is nice for close quarter and shooting on the move from a vehicle,some of my guys have picked up the Aimpoint 3x magnifier and are running them with either EOTechs or Aimpoints with good results.
Elcan is crap,alot have gone down with zero retention issues here,and for some reason the rubber covers are falling off like crazy.
 
Elcan is crap,alot have gone down with zero retention issues here,and for some reason the rubber covers are falling off like crazy.
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Then i guess they where good then untill something better was develop. I'm looking forward trying those new toys.
 
I don't see the need for the DR Optic on it, I found the BAC reticle was quite effective in CQB distances ,even at muzzle distances (but that's another story :) ). The DoD ret. pattern is very easy to get used to,after about 15min of dry firing I had no problem going from CQB to long range sight pictures,in the field I did not even notice except for altering point of aim for ranges beyond 200m.
I have seen at least 2 other ACOGs here one is an NSN model with the Dr Optic on it, it seems to be too high,about as high as the G36 CQB red dot,requiring you to shift your shooting stance to use the optic.
 
Reaper: Thank you for your level headed and factual assessment of the ELCAN in theatre. I appreciate your evaluation of the ACOG in your operations. Get back to us safely!!

Your feedback will certainly be read by many troops likely to be deployed very soon.... yup, they are here and they are lurking... Let's ensure that they deploy with the knowledge you have learned by eating the Afghan dust.
 
To clarify my question about the Elcan:

Does the C79A2 Elcan base still suffer from the same reliability problems in the field that the C79 Elcan does? Are these scopes you mention with the zero retention problems the new model or the old ones?
 
So is Elcan basically the following?

-High quality super clear glass
-Wont hold zero
-Has cheap easily damaged mounts?

Why do we still issue them? Wouldnt CF be better with Acog?

Am I missing something?
 
lol, can you fill me in abit? I dont know anybody in DLR. Is it some sort of ####ed up historical reason? Like way back when the Liberals wanted us to use any glass that the Americans werent using? It cant be price can it? I thought Elcans were comparable of alittle more cash then ACOGs.
 
opticsplanet_1924_80158538
 
Could someone (KevinB or Reaper preferably...) then summarize which Optics are preferable over others? I know I'm just a range monkey, but even I prefer owning what real operators would choose out there.
It seems Aimpoint or S&B Short Dot is prefered because of the brightness they offer, but I'm a little fuzzy on other optics like ACOG.

Hungry here: Have a look at this sticky: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31083

It's found in the Optics Forum. KevinB summarized it quite well. Hope this helps your addiction. It clarified my addiction and now my wife and I own TA31 ACOG's on our carbines.
 
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I'll add my $.02. I like the Aimpoint because you can shoot with both eyes open, some troops can do that with other optics but not me. I can make hits with the Aimpoint on steel, say the size of the 10"X12" plate at 100m with no problems. I haven't done much CQB, but as far as getting a "sight picture" in a hurry, the Aimpoint for me works. I'm no SME, but having used the ACOG and the Aimpoint, I like the Aimpoint. If I went back, given the distances in Afghanistan and the kind of op's we ran. I choose the ACOG.IMO someones brotherinlaw in DND must be in the Elcan camp. This optic althought good for the CF rifle team, needs to be changed. It doesn't hold zero, I know that from personal experience.
 
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How about good old iron peep sights? Ok, some sort of red dot would be faster but irons have there advantages in some situations, like rain, fog, snow.... Put me down for some sort of good iron backup sights to go with the optic away.
 
Im really torn right now, I just received my last pay on release check in the mail and plan on spending it on an optic for TF 1-08. I have used most of the common ones out there, all for short periods of time mind you, and as a result have narrowed it down a bit. Any input from guys with appropriate experience would be great.

Right now the choice is between an Eotech 522 Rev. F/ Aimpoint 3x Combo and an ACOG TA31 or TA31F

S&B is out for me because of cost, Luppy and NF dont seem to fit the bill. The Elcan Spectre is out due to being a POS, the ACOG DOC combo is out for me because, like Reaper, I found the DOC to sit much to high for my liking. Aimpoint is out because I like the Eotech better. Soooo it that narrows my choices.

My thinking is thus -

Eotech/3x Combo -
An eotech/3x combo is quite versetile. I am looking at a price point of roughly $1100US for the Eotech 522 Rev F, Aimpoint 3x, Larue Lt 110 mount, and twist mount for the 3x. Give or take a few hundred if I can get some of the stuff on for sale boards.

Pros - Eotech is basically unsurpassed for CQB
Ability to switch between 3x and 0
Ability to use 3x separately as a monocular

Cons - Somewhat pricier than the ACOG
Switch from mag to non mag or vise versa takes time
Have to store 3x in a pouch (I dont like the sampson mounts)
Reduced field of view at 3x

ACOG TA31/TA31 F -
First off I am not sure which one to go with. I like the chevron reticle much better for taking longer distance shots, but conversely like the donute reticle much better for CQB distances. I have never shot the donut reticle myself, as such input would be greatly appreciated. Further compounding my issues is that the ACOG I shot was a TA01 NSN with DOC upgrade. As a result I have no personal experience with how the BAC functions at CQB distances. So, not upgrading to a larue mount, I am looking at around $750US (good source) for either one.

Pros - Excellent optic for longer ranges
Cheaper than Eotech set up
no need to switch/add anything to fire
Drop Compensator for longer distances

Cons - Not as good for CQB as EOtech
Always magnified, no ability to go un magnified

Basically I am leaning towards the ACOG right now because of the price. Holding me back is my lack of experience with this particular ACOG, as mentioned above. Particularly its abilities in a CQB situation. I have searched around here, and on some other boards and have read tons of stuff on both setups. The problem is that the good and bad is about equal, I have not been able to find a side by side comparison. Obviously optics are a personal thing but any input on any of what I said from guys with relevant experience (sorry range guys not trying to single you out, but you know ;) ). I'm looking for opinions and performance appraisals for how these setups are stacking up against each other in theater. Help me make this decision guys. Thanks
 
For right now I think I want to stick with the 2 setups that I mentioned above. I know there a lot of smaller names out there making quality optics but I want Combat reliability. Both ACOG and Eotech are proven. Thanks very much for the input though.
 
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