Kel-Tec and Norc Ammo...this poop's weird...

NorthernCX

NorthernCX

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OK, so in trying to (finally) get the crappy stock sights on my SU-16 set up well enough to say they're the backup and finally put on some kind of optic, I'm having a couple issues.

I'm using Norc .223, '93 manufacture. Big jets of flame out the muzzle. (That's not the problem, it just looks cool).

A lot of stovepipes, and on my second-last trip to the range the extractor tore a chunk out of the rim, leaving a case stuck in the chamber. Cleared that up, went back today, and still quite a few stovepipes, yet another double feed, and while picking up brass we noticed that the extractor seems to be tearing hell out of the rims on the ammo. I need to get a couple boxes of Federal or something else to verify, but would this be a sign of weak, cheap brass? They are all chewed up more than any of us there were used to seeing, and a couple had almost had that portion of the rim sheared off.

Anyone else out there run across this before? Is there something in the bolt assembly/extractor I should be looking at?

Gonna give it a good cleaning and going over before I take it back out. I don't think it's a mag issue, it's doing it with the factory mags and both makes of LAR-15 mags I've got. And the stoppages were happening before with RCMP-verified Federal .223; it's the rim damage I never looked at before that I want to verify now.
 
The nork ammo is a bit "hot" compared to northamerican made .223......

I have done a bunch of testing and its at least 150-200 FPS faster out of all my .223/556 guns.....

The ammo is marked as "mil-spec .223" so it may be an over pressure situation in your rifle......
 
I've shot lots of 93 and 95 stuff. All the brass that comes out of my rifle looks great, no dented casing or damage.
It does however spit a huge fire ball out the end of the gun
 
I just got my SU-16 threaded because like you, I'm shooting norinco ammo. I'm abit worried about how hot the ammo is and the issues about cracked receivers. However the norinco ammo is 26-28 cents compared to Fed/AE @ 40+ cents a round. The savings do add up if you go through ammo, almost enough to pay for half a new rifle.
I do like a quite gun but darn with the norinco even with a comp, it's really really loud!
 
The Norinco ammo runs fine through our two Norinco M4 clones & my Tavor. Let us know how you make out with different ammo.

Cheers
Jay
 
Well, back at the range today I found a few rounds of Federal .223 in my bag, loaded them up and a couple rounds of the Norc stuff. And yes, I and the other shooters noticed the 'fire-breathing dragon' aspect of the Norc ammo. I only wanted to compare extraction marks. On checking the cases afterwards, the extractor marks on the Federal brass weren't nearly so pronounced as they were on the Norinco stuff. Others there agreed that it looked like the extractor had taken a deeper 'bite' in the Norinco ammo. Since the rifle wasn't fired until it was as hot as when I had the fail-to-extract issue, I've a feeling a good cleaning is in order, as that stuck case also seemed to have some extra dark material 'baked' onto the exterior. Hot chamber+hot ammo+aggressive extractor=extraction problem?

Next step is a teardown of the rifle, clean the action spotless (the barrel actually looks pristine- no debris for sure), and back to the range and pass a couple mags of each through it again, then take another look at the brass and see if there's a difference.

A flash hider is something I've considered- there's about 1/2" of barrel ahead of the front post, is that enough to thread a flash hider? I'm no machinist, but it seems the barrel is thin enough that it could be threaded with the proper die without having to lathe it. I measured it at one time but can't recall off the top of my head.
 
im 780 rds into my 1600 5.66 norc ammo. not one single issue through my CORE 15 AR. flawless every shot and somewhat clean believe it or not. i also had some new production MFS (no primer sealant) and out of the 100 rds i shot, 5 split. I've shot around 800-900rds of MFS and never had a problem until yesterday. maybe due to the fact i put 400rds down range in quick time.
 
What may be happening is your ammo is 5.56 in a .223 chamber, where the neck sizes are a little different. The FTF are due to the casing swelling to the slightly differently shaped chamber and sticking, so when the bolt is carrying back it is pulling out the case that is 'stuck'. The ammo may not be good for your firearm and if it were me, I would stop using it. Good luck!
 
norc ammo in tavor

Roddy said:
The Norc stuff didn't do well in my Tavor. I had split casings and failures to eject.
Click to expand...

I have a tavor on the way and was thinking of picking up a crate of 1600 .223 norinco, but you are saying you weren't happy with it? Some other guys have mentioned they fired it just fine in the tavor.
 
Attilathecanuk said:
What may be happening is your ammo is 5.56 in a .223 chamber, where the neck sizes are a little different. The FTF are due to the casing swelling to the slightly differently shaped chamber and sticking, so when the bolt is carrying back it is pulling out the case that is 'stuck'. The ammo may not be good for your firearm and if it were me, I would stop using it. Good luck!
Click to expand...

The Kel-Tecs are chambered for 5.56, and the manual states it's safe for both... I think it's a combination of dirty gun/high rate of fire (heat). When I get a chance to strip and clean it and try again, I'll be sure to report.
 
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