Lathe size
- Thread starter J10archer
- Start date
For gunsmithing a large swing is not required, a four foot bed is nice and a 1.350" spindle hole is nice. That's what I had for many years, an 11 inch Rockwell variable speed.
I started out with a 10 inch Atlas and did all my gunsmithing with it for over 10 years though.
I started out with a 10 inch Atlas and did all my gunsmithing with it for over 10 years though.
You haven’t said what you want it for. I do a lot of case forming and making small parts. I don’t do larger projects so I went with the Taig from Lee Valley. It is capable of making cases out of solid brass bar ,450-577 as an example. A lot of jages for muzzleloaders are also made. Try finding jages for 14 or 15 ga shotguns. A few minutes work solves the problem. I know some of the stuff I make could be ordered from the states but how long does it take to get here,possibly being held at the border for weeks. I have never regretted spending the money buying it. About $2000 spent on lathe and accessories to work with metal and wood.
What you plan to do with a lathe has a lot to do with size and availability of accessories.
What you plan to do with a lathe has a lot to do with size and availability of accessories.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
This!! I currently am learning this stuff - with a 10" Atlas lathe - that larger spindle hole would sure make a difference - likely needs a spider out on left side, but never have got that far with this little hole through the spindle. It is a TH54, so has nice long bed - a real bear to get set up to be flat - but lots of room for centre rest, etc. If you have never played with a lathe - be prepared for massive additional costs - cutters, tool posts, various size and style chucks, and seems to never end.
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I have used a 618 Atlas, South Bend 16x56, South Bend 10K-36, South Bend Heavy 10-36, Sheldon 12-36, Standard-Modern 1340. 36" center distance is nice to have. A large spindle bore is really nice.
At present I have the little Atlas and the S-M. Its spindle bore is just shy of 1 1/2". Its spindle is fairly long, so a short barrel cannot be set up through the headstock. The Atlas is useful for small jobs.
A South Bend Heavy 10 is an excellent gunsmithing lathe if in good shape. That big. old 16" South Bend was really useful. It was made in 1932. Many/most of the vintage South Bends are old, well used machines. That 10K was a really useful medium sized machine. About as large a machine as can be easily moved without things getting serious.
Just about any lathe is better than no lathe.
At present I have the little Atlas and the S-M. Its spindle bore is just shy of 1 1/2". Its spindle is fairly long, so a short barrel cannot be set up through the headstock. The Atlas is useful for small jobs.
A South Bend Heavy 10 is an excellent gunsmithing lathe if in good shape. That big. old 16" South Bend was really useful. It was made in 1932. Many/most of the vintage South Bends are old, well used machines. That 10K was a really useful medium sized machine. About as large a machine as can be easily moved without things getting serious.
Just about any lathe is better than no lathe.
Don't know of any videos.
Here is how I've made large bottlenecked black powder cases:
Drill the rod as deep as needed, almost as large in diameter as the bullet. Turn the rod to the profile of the case. Bore out the neck to suit the bullet. Note that the interior of the case is not bottlenecked. Thick walled through the body. Part off the case. Reverse and face off until rim thickness is correct. Drill flash hole. Drill and mill flatbottomed primer pocket. A primer pocket uniforming tool would be a good last step.
Anneal neck and shoulder.
If you want to try to make a formed bottlenecked case, turn it so that it is like a brass shotgun case, anneal, and try to form by sizing down the neck in incremental stages.
The thick bodied case will work for reduced charges - less volume for powder.
Making these on a manual machine is time consuming.
Here is how I've made large bottlenecked black powder cases:
Drill the rod as deep as needed, almost as large in diameter as the bullet. Turn the rod to the profile of the case. Bore out the neck to suit the bullet. Note that the interior of the case is not bottlenecked. Thick walled through the body. Part off the case. Reverse and face off until rim thickness is correct. Drill flash hole. Drill and mill flatbottomed primer pocket. A primer pocket uniforming tool would be a good last step.
Anneal neck and shoulder.
If you want to try to make a formed bottlenecked case, turn it so that it is like a brass shotgun case, anneal, and try to form by sizing down the neck in incremental stages.
The thick bodied case will work for reduced charges - less volume for powder.
Making these on a manual machine is time consuming.
I found the information from an old Gun Digest. Had drawings and measurements. After I made a couple I did find videos on internet. The one thing I did like about making the cases is you could reduce the internal volume. A drill bit run in from the case mouth can be stopped at any depth once past the neck. Small bit is run in from the primer. Inside isn’t hogged out so case body is thick. It’s a neck size only as the body walls are too thick to resize. I made the case to hold 65 grs of 2 fg with the bullet seated. These cases will only fit my rifle. I believe I have 8 reloads on them so far and still going. I was going to make up more but I found about 90 brass at the next two gun shows.
You want to get the best/largest lathe you have room for and of course can afford.
Lathes are like any other tool, just more versatile and come with a much wider/longer learning curve.
Depending on what you're wanting the lathe for, you're also going to have to purchase decent tooling that match it's capabilities.
If you're just going to modify or even make up your own brass cases, one of the small lathes, such as a UNIMAT will fill your needs.
If you want to get into barrel swaps and heavier threading then you want a lathe with lots of power, a spindle hole of at least 1.5 inches or 3cm and a bed that allows 36 inches between the chuck/center and tail stock live center tip.
Used lathes often come with crucial parts missing, such as steady rests and half rests.
Older lathes can also have a lot of wear and parts are expensive or difficult to acquire.
Then of course, there is the factor of how much that lathe weighs and where you're going to mount it.
Is your floor/bench solid enough to handle it and the vibrations that will accumulate over time, causing warps which are transferred to the lathe frame??
If a barrel can be mounted through the spindle, 4-jaw on one end, spider on the other, a shorter bed is usable. If the barrel has to be supported with the 4-jaw at the muzzle and a steady rest at the breech end, the longer the lathe, the better. If a barrel is tapered, a portion can be inside the spindle. My Standard Modern did not come with a steady, and I never found one, so I machined a riser block so I could mount an Atlas.
Generally speaking a large lathe can do small things, a small lathe can't do big ones. I have made percussion nipples, including single point cutting the threads, on my 1340 Standard Modern. Sledgehammer driving a very small tack, but it can be done.
Generally speaking a large lathe can do small things, a small lathe can't do big ones. I have made percussion nipples, including single point cutting the threads, on my 1340 Standard Modern. Sledgehammer driving a very small tack, but it can be done.
Working very close to a large chuck can be a bit intimidating.
I find it easier to chamber barrels using a steady with the muzzle end in the chuck. I have a spindle spider but really don't use it often.
Talk about large chucks - my lathe only came with a 3-jaw. Ordered a 4-jaw. It is a scrolling 4-jaw, not something you see that often. Jaws can be adjusted independently or all 4 scroll. Large enough to be really awkward to mount and dismount. Got a smaller one, use it. Even then I use a wooden carriage underneath it to guide the pins into the spindle. No desire to get my fingers between the chuck and the ways.
Being in Ontario, you should have no problem finding a pretty decent machine.
If you find a decent Atlas (rare like rocking horse poo!), it will serve OK, but there are a bunch out there that may serve better. Many were bought cheap and worked like rented mules, or simply not well taken care of. To be honest, that applies to all used machine tools, but the smaller Atlas lathes seemed to start closer to end of life than some others...
For example, if you are limited to what you can put on a bench, or what you can haul up a set of stairs on a dolly, the 9 inch South Bend machines (again, find a good one) are worth a look, as are Boxford (a licensed clone of South Bend, except they evolved, and SB didn't), or look at a Myford ML7 or Super 7. All were pretty affordable, and represented decent quality, before they each in turn, priced themselves into oblivion. Eg: mid 1970's a fella with a decent job, could buy a well enough tooled up Super 7 for around $2500 new from the factory. A lot of money then. But when they finally calved, the retail price on a bare bones Super 7 was over $20K! They were never a $20K lathe...
If you can stand handling a larger chunk of iron, the gates open up a lot, and you have a far wider choice. If I had to pick just one machine, it would likely be in the 12-13 inch swing area, with 36-40 inches between centers, and at least a 1 3/8 inch bore, so you have the option of using 5C collets directly in the spindle. Lots of Colchester, standard modern (both new style and old style) out there. These machines are getting in the range where they can be got with 3 phase motors on them. Scares some folks, but an awful pile of variable frequency drives, will take single phase 220v power and convert it, and you usually get the added bonus of variable spindle speeds to boot.
Shop condition. As little as I am fond of Atlas machines (the Atlas 12 inch machine is a world better than the 10 inch, in general), one in mint condition is more like to serve you well than a beat to death South Bend, say. Watch for 'pint of paint' 'rebuilds' that look good sitting still, from a distance, etc.
www.lathes.co.uk is a treasure trove of machine tool info, generally pointing out the strong and weak points of various machines. So if you see a name you don't recognize, it's worth a look at their online archive! Not gonna help you if you are looking at a Busy bee model from 20 years ago, but still...
If you find a decent Atlas (rare like rocking horse poo!), it will serve OK, but there are a bunch out there that may serve better. Many were bought cheap and worked like rented mules, or simply not well taken care of. To be honest, that applies to all used machine tools, but the smaller Atlas lathes seemed to start closer to end of life than some others...
For example, if you are limited to what you can put on a bench, or what you can haul up a set of stairs on a dolly, the 9 inch South Bend machines (again, find a good one) are worth a look, as are Boxford (a licensed clone of South Bend, except they evolved, and SB didn't), or look at a Myford ML7 or Super 7. All were pretty affordable, and represented decent quality, before they each in turn, priced themselves into oblivion. Eg: mid 1970's a fella with a decent job, could buy a well enough tooled up Super 7 for around $2500 new from the factory. A lot of money then. But when they finally calved, the retail price on a bare bones Super 7 was over $20K! They were never a $20K lathe...
If you can stand handling a larger chunk of iron, the gates open up a lot, and you have a far wider choice. If I had to pick just one machine, it would likely be in the 12-13 inch swing area, with 36-40 inches between centers, and at least a 1 3/8 inch bore, so you have the option of using 5C collets directly in the spindle. Lots of Colchester, standard modern (both new style and old style) out there. These machines are getting in the range where they can be got with 3 phase motors on them. Scares some folks, but an awful pile of variable frequency drives, will take single phase 220v power and convert it, and you usually get the added bonus of variable spindle speeds to boot.
Shop condition. As little as I am fond of Atlas machines (the Atlas 12 inch machine is a world better than the 10 inch, in general), one in mint condition is more like to serve you well than a beat to death South Bend, say. Watch for 'pint of paint' 'rebuilds' that look good sitting still, from a distance, etc.
www.lathes.co.uk is a treasure trove of machine tool info, generally pointing out the strong and weak points of various machines. So if you see a name you don't recognize, it's worth a look at their online archive! Not gonna help you if you are looking at a Busy bee model from 20 years ago, but still...
I worked on a lathe like that. Basically it was turning big drums the size of a 55 gal drum. It was ####ing terrifying and annoying to operate. It threw off huge, super hot curlycues of metal that you'd step on and they'd melt into the sole of your work shoes so you'd literally be coaling on metal. Also if any of those red hot curlicues hit your skin they'd stick .... which was rather painful.
One of the best accessories I ever got for my lathe was a collet chuck. The good quality ones are very expensive but reasonable quality models can be had off eBay for a reasonable price. Mine uses 5c collets and it is amazing how easy it is to put a piece into the chuck and have it run straight. No, its not hydrogen bomb level of accuracy but it is very good for 99.9% of user's needs.
