Lee Enfield mk4 No1 Cracked Bolt

Claven2 said:
Andy - I think it's an oversized Berdan primed case.
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Canadian DI Z cartridge case made in 1943, Boxer primed. This is belmont .303 British ammunition? No way, reloads if that was the cartridge case.

Ready, Aim... do you have any pictures of the Belmont ammo and the box etc.
 
The cartridge case has swelled to allow the primer to fall out. DI Z cases are good and the primers always stick when reloading. The primer in the photo is showing signs of high pressure, the primer metal (brass) has flowed out of the primer pocket. see how it is pressed into the firing pin and the gap around the firing pin, as well as flowing over the top of the primer pocket

Ready, Aim... Can we get a shot of the side of the fired cartridge case?
 
Pblatzz said:
The cartridge case has swelled to allow the primer to fall out. DI Z cases are good and the primers always stick when reloading. The primer in the photo is showing signs of high pressure, the primer metal (brass) has flowed out of the primer pocket. see how it is pressed into the firing pin and the gap around the firing pin, as well as flowing over the top of the primer pocket

Ready, Aim... Can we get a shot of the side of the fired cartridge case?
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the DI Z brass is a nice heavy case too and if you look at the butt of the case too it looks smoothed out like the whole end of the case had been compressed into the bolt face, i've seen that exact brass flow with some late war 8mm mauser not that long ago that were dangerously over pressured.
 
Hmm... I see. Not bredan for sure. Brain fart on my part for sure.

If it IS a factory load, maybe it's a 1 in 10,000 bad loading?
 
BadgerDog said:
I hope nobody went out and fired one of those ... :(

Here's a few links to other threads where Peter and others have discussed the pitfalls of DP and ZF marked rifles ...

ZF marking on Enfields?

DP Stock Marks Queryhttp://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=18143

DP Rifleshttp://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=18005

Anyone with rifles so marked should read them all thoroughly before you go and shoot it ... :thup:

Regards,
Doug
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Over the years I have noted a persistent belief among a slice of gun owners that, unlike other mechanical things like vehicles, toasters, TVs, etc, guns never wear out.:rockOn: This goes along with another widely held belief that gunsmiths should continue to charge their time @ $10/hr while plumbers, electricians, psychiatrists, mechanics, and whoever else can adjust their rates to the current economy.:rolleyes:
 
Well the firearm looks fine but I would take it to a gunsmith you trust to get the action checked out.

As for the bolt, I wouldn't use it for anything but a paper weight or a display piece now. No 4 bolts and bolt heads are relatively common so if your gun smith gives a thumbs up for the No 4, I would inquire about getting a replacement bolt and bolt head that head spaces properly.
 
Kernalvax said:
the DI Z brass is a nice heavy case too and if you look at the butt of the case too it looks smoothed out like the whole end of the case had been compressed into the bolt face, i've seen that exact brass flow with some late war 8mm mauser not that long ago that were dangerously over pressured.
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I was once able to read a cartridge's headstamp off a boltface after a very hot round. You could clearly read the stamp's mirror image on that boltface.

We still need to see a side view of that case to be sure but I'm putting my money on a hot round for the principal cause of this bolt's failure.
 
Sasquatch807 said:
I was once able to read a cartridge's headstamp off a boltface after a very hot round. You could clearly read the stamp's mirror image on that boltface.

We still need to see a side view of that case to be sure but I'm putting my money on a hot round for the principal cause of this bolt's failure.
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Here is a picture of the side of the round and the box, I took a look at my Remington 303 british ammunition and I see what you are saying about the primer being rounded. the belmont one is flat, so possible reloading?
I looked at the milsurps.com thread and they were saying the same thing hot reload or the lug wasn't set properly.

_MG_1046.jpg

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Well - I havent bought commercial ammo in years - so I'm not familiar with Belmont ammo. But those cases are ex military cases from just after the war - hard to imagine that relatively new factory ammo would use these cases. How did you come by the ammo? It would be interesting to dissect a few to see what the charge weight is..
 
Wow, Those cases are WWII vintage, They still have the circular crimp on the primers. That means the primers are WWII vintage as well. (Because, you cannot reload this brass unless you ream the primer pocket its what make them hard to reload) Also note the primer sealant is visible, no one reloads with a primer sealant.

What is the bullet, It sais 150gr but this was originally a 174gr bullet. One has to ask if they reused the same powder charge or a home reload sold as a box of new?

The fired case looks stressed, You can see the chamber markings but most frightening is the ring at the back of the case before the rim, glad that bolt held after breaking. You are a lucky man...

BTW glad no one was hurt, but you know that is pointless to buy lotto tickets for a while.

Pete
 
I'm thinking that is actually WW2 surplus ammo that someone put in a Belmont ammo box. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you did not buy that ammo new at a store. Either given to you, bought used, or bought at a gunshow - am I right?
 
Claven2 said:
I'm thinking that is actually WW2 surplus ammo that someone put in a Belmont ammo box. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you did not buy that ammo new at a store. Either given to you, bought used, or bought at a gunshow - am I right?
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Umm I did buy it at a store in the US. I have 2 boxes of it. The shop is off Guide Meridian road and just before division road in Bellingham. COuldn't find the name
 
Interesting. A guy on milsurps believes the Belmont ammo is tracer ammo that the projectiles were pulled from and new 150gr projectiles added on. No idea if that's true or not, and it would not explain the one over-hot round.
 
The case in the picture show signs of very high pressure.
I am not familiar with Belmont ammo but it looks like one of these commercial reloading outfits. I think that ammo was commercially reloaded because the wartime stuff I've handled didn't look like that at all. I have seen commercially reloaded ammo by Centaur in the Montreal area and they used primer sealant and it looked just like your stuff.

Don't fire the rest of that batch, pull the bullets and weigh the powder before dumping it to see if the charges are uneven from one case to another.
 
DI tracer rounds.
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When the bolt snapped the "headspacing" would have been huge, don't mistake damage to the case as over-pressure due to a "hot load", the case damage could be a red herring.
 
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