Legalities of cutting a rifle barre already under 18 inches

tiriaq said:
Except that the interpretation of the law and established practice is that altering the existing barrel is an offence, while replacing the barrel isn't.

Further, your statement that all cops are, in general, retards is inaccurate. It is stereotyping and a sweeping negative generalization.
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Is there any case law on this ? I did not find any. If you are referring to commercial consensus or practice... well its worth nothing and its not a defense.


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Here is the legal test for the barrel swap of the GSG previously discussed:

Is there a way for the pursuant to demonstrate what was the initial length of the barrel when it left the manufacturer's factory. Yes (The FRT with some RCMP "experts" testifying and possibly an affidavit or testimony of someone from GSG).

Is replacing any part of a firearm for a different one is considered altering the firearm ?

Altering: to change something, usually slightly, or to cause the characteristics of something to change
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Is the firearm is changed ? Yes, slightly ? Yes. Are the characteristics of the firearm changed ? Yes.

Is this adapted firearm is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length.

Yes.

Result: Firearm is prohibited and they'll be able to prove it.

Also, the french version uses the word "modification" instead of "alteration". Which could also be analysed thoroughly. Also, words before altered are sawed or cut which one could argue that altered must be interpreted in the light of the two other adjectives which are cut or sawed and that the alteration must be in relation of a "modification" of the existing barrel considering the use of cut or sawed by the legislator.

Also, a read of the parliamentary debates concerning this definition when it was discussed and adopted could also enlighten this debate.

In short, this definition is poorly written.

This is a grey area. Someone will have to pay of his freedom and his financial resources for this to be clarified.
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As to my statement about cops... well its my opinion.



Sorry for the long post i got inspired.
 
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Don't get hung up on gunsmithing vs manufacturers. Two separate practices, one of which, being manufacturing, is legal for barrels the other is not!

North
 
Rick911 said:
Is there any case law on this ? I did not find any. If you are referring to commercial consensus or practice... well its worth nothing and its not a defense.


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Here is the legal test for a barrel swap the GSG previously discussed:

Is there a way for the pursuant to demonstrate what was the initial length of the barrel when it left the manufacturer's factory. Yes (The FRT with some RCMP "experts" testifying and possibly an affidavit or testimony of someone from GSG).

Is replacing any part of a firearm for a different one is considered altering the firearm ?



Is the firearm is changed ? Yes, slightly ? Yes. Are the characteristics of the firearm changed ? Yes.

Is this adapted firearm is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length.

Yes.

Result: Firearm is prohibited and they'll be able to prove it.
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As to my statement about cops... well its my opinion.
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Well for the GSG its stupid oblivious. There is a serial number on the barrel, it is also SS... Dlask is blued, with their information, and barrel length. So their for NOT a shortened factory barrel.

Aren't you a party pooper. How about calling up Dlask. Because if it was illegal and prohibed like you say. They would been busted YEARs ago. That goes with their 10/22, Tuff 22, Shotguns, GSG and other guns they have altered with barrels under 457mm

I think Tiriaq knows a thing or two about gunsmithing and machining.
 
OkayShooter said:
Well for the GSG its stupid oblivious. There is a serial number on the barrel, it is also SS... Dlask is blued, with their information, and barrel length. So their for NOT a shortened factory barrel.

Aren't you a party pooper. How about calling up Dlask. Because if it was illegal and prohibed like you say. They would been busted YEARs ago. That goes with their 10/22, Tuff 22, Shotguns, GSG and other guns they have altered with barrels under 457mm

I think Tiriaq knows a thing or two about gunsmithing and machining.
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I think i know a thing or two about the law.

I'm not here to argue. What i posted is almost incontestable and its basic law analysis.

Sorry to be a party pooper i guess.
 
OkayShooter said:
So.. You're sounding like a fudd, and against barrels under 18".

Guess that why you think cops are generally retards. Takes one to know one :p.
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Personal attacks, i see.

I own several firearms with barrels under 14 inches. I am less than 30 years old. Hell, if it was up to me automatic firearms and concealed carry would be legal.

You are dead wrong. Again.

I'm done here.
 
Rick911 said:
Personal attacks, i see.

I own several firearms with barrels under 14 inches. I am less than 30 years old. You are dead wrong. Again.

I'm done here.
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So then you are claiming what? A barrel can be shorter than 18 if it came that way from the original FACTORY and can not have a MANUFACTURED barrel less than 18 installed after? What about all of those Chinese 870 barrels less than 18? China is not the original factory...

Manufacturers can make barrels for guns less than 18 inch period. It does not have to be made that way at the original factory where it was made.

Now, I am the one who is done here, but what do I know, being a retarded LEO...

North
 
https://nfa.ca/2005/02/25/barrel-and-firearms-lengths/

LESS THAN 18″/457mm BARREL LENGTH RULES:

CC s. 84(1) “prohibited firearm” (d): If the barrel has been SHORTENED to less than 18″/457mm, after leaving the factory, “by sawing, cutting or ANY other alteration or modification” that forces the firearm into the “prohibited firearm” class.

NOTE: The firearm is NOT forced into the “prohibited firearm” class if it left the factory with the barrel at below-18″/457mm barrel length. I have, for example, a .22 rimfire semi-auto 30-shot rifle with a 9-3/4″ barrel, a .410 single-shot shotgun with an 11-3/4″ barrel, two 12-gauge pump-action shotguns with 14″ barrels, a .22 rimfire pump-action rifle with a 17-7/8″ custom barrel and a .223 calibre rifle with a 14″ barrel — AND ALL OF THEM ARE NON-RESTRICTED. THAT IS BECAUSE THEY EITHER LEFT THE FACTORY WITH THOSE BARRELS, OR WERE FITTED WITH FACTORY- OR CUSTOM-MADE BARRELS IN THOSE LENGTHS AT SOME LATER DATE, and were NEVER fitted with a longer barrel. One left the factory with NO barrel, and so a 14″ barrel could be legally fitted.

My assembly of that collection of idiocy demonstrations was deliberate. The law apparently tried to prohibit certain lengths of barrel or firearm — and failed miserably, because the limits are all conditional. Assembling the necessary parts to change one of your firearms into one of my above-noted configurations is something you can do as a hobby. It is a risky hobby. You may be forced to defend the legality of what you have, or have done, in a court of law — at heavy expense — because some police officer does NOT understand all the above technicalities. You may even be convicted — because some JUDGE does not understand firearms law. Did YOU understand it before reading ALL of this posting? Are you SURE you understand the limits NOW?

It is IMPORTANT to understand what you can and cannot do.
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It is my understanding the RCMP accept a bolt action barrel replacement with a barrel less than 18 inches if the barrel is a custom made blank and the firearm has an overall length of at least 26 inches.
 
guntech said:
It is my understanding the RCMP accept a bolt action barrel replacement with a barrel less than 18 inches if the barrel is a custom made blank and the firearm has an overall length of at least 26 inches.
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Yes. This has been confirmed by several gunsmiths who have done sbr builds for me.

As to the OPs post, the general consensus is once its done, no more shortening, but the technocrat in me likes his question, and I find it an interesting possible interpretation.
 
Rick911 said:
Is there any case law on this ? I did not find any. If you are referring to commercial consensus or practice... well its worth nothing and its not a defense.
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There is no case law because there have been no cases. No prosecutions for having installed, for example, Dlask 12" barrels on 10/22 rifles.

Have a look at the FRT entries for the Ruger 10/22. There are entries for versions with various barrel lengths, other than those which left the Ruger factory.
 
gaff said:
yes anyone can make a barrel.
If you take a blank and manufacturer it to a length less than the legal limit and install it on a firearm as a finished barrel.
you would be breaking the law without a manufacturing licence. Companies that make shorter barrels like DLASK are licenced to do so and put there name on the product.
A gunsmithing licence and manufacturing licence are not the same.
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You're still wrong. Machining and installing a barrel on your own rifle doesn't require a gunsmithing license and manufacturing barrels for commercial sale doesn't require a Business Firearms License, either.

A barrel manufacturer that does nothing else is not manufacturing firearms and is not providing gunsmithing services. They're not touching guns and, therefore, do not require a license to possess firearms, let alone for business purposes. In other words, I could start a barrel-making business without so much as a PAL. Is this hard to understand?
 
gaff said:
20 people ,20 correct answers, are our firearms laws not great ! I guess the final answer would come with a lawyers bill.
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Final answer will only come with the risk of imprisonment and losing your ability to own firearms for 10 years. Because the final answer comes from a judge/jury in a criminal trial.

But the RCMP and other police forces seem to have not pressed charges against anyone except for cutting an existing barrel shorter. So that's what I run with.
 
Not to hijack this thread but since I purchased a TUFF receiver with installed 16" barrel (.22) it looks like I am double in the clear because I bought a "gun" with 16" barrel.

Do I see this correctly?
 
Teac said:
Not to hijack this thread but since I purchased a TUFF receiver with installed 16" barrel (.22) it looks like I am double in the clear because I bought a "gun" with 16" barrel.

Do I see this correctly?
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I wouldn’t say that... if it’s illegal due to a barrel that was cut down it’s still illegal despite you buying it that way. I can’t see any difference either way resulting from you installing a newly made barrel and or buying it already installed.
 
rommelrommel said:
I wouldn’t say that... if it’s illegal due to a barrel that was cut down it’s still illegal despite you buying it that way. I can’t see any difference either way resulting from you installing a newly made barrel and or buying it already installed.
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It is a factory 16" barrel assembled into a gun (barrel and receiver) by the factory. The barrel was not cut
 
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