LET'S SEE YOUR WINCHESTER MODEL 21's

[Cow Town Bill]

Bill, that maple stock is blasphemy!

Gotta, remember, CB that my Win M21 is made in USA and I remember maple being popular in the 60's and 70's and is becoming popular again. Browning offer several model of shotguns with maple stocks---the Model 725 had a limited offering last year.
I can't imagine the English or German makers offering maple stocks.
Anyway, I enjoy the maple---neat to have something a little different.
Bill

 

[Cow Town Bill]

I knew a guy who was working for the accountancy firm that was helping close down the Winchester Canada office in Toronto when they were leaving the country. Guy told another friend that the Winchester head was offering everyone heavily discounted prices, I think 60% off wholesale, for the long guns still in stock (this was before any permits were required in Canada). Well, as my accountant buddy was walking through his front door after work the day I heard about this, his phone was ringing and it was me on the line asking if there were any Winchester 21s in stock, maybe forgotten in a back room? I said I'd take any number they had but apparently that number was zero. I just wish I could be certain my friend actually asked, I know he'd already said he didn't want anything and he was a never change his word kind of guy. But oh, what might have been.

I heard something about this but way after the fact. Possibly senior employees snapped up the M21's. I recall that a number of years later some 21's being offered for sale that were attributed to ex Winchester employees.
I just recalled that there was an ex Winchester employee at my gun club in Calgary in the late 70's. When he was an employee he ordered a M21 on one of his trips to New Haven. It was a trap gun with superb walnut. I had the opportunity to buy it but for some reason I didn't.

 

[rembolt]

Wow just perused this thread . cow town bill those are some of the most beautiful examples of craftsmanship and gun making I have ever seen . thanks for posting this .

 

[Cow Town Bill]

Wow just perused this thread . cow town bill those are some of the most beautiful examples of craftsmanship and gun making I have ever seen . thanks for posting this .

I'm happy that you are enjoying this thread. It has been viewed over 4000 times over the past year and a bit.
I'll add more info from time to time to maintain the interest in M21's.
Bill

 

[Cow Town Bill]

I just spotted a beautiful M21 that is up for auction in the US and would like to share some pics with M21 enthusiasts.
It's a 16 gauge two barrel set, with vent ribs that I prefer, and has been engraved after market by Arnold Griebel who was a famous engraver back in the 40's and 50's.
Enjoy!

 

[the spank]

I like that!!!

 

[Falconflyer]

Very nice!!!!!!

 

[Cow Town Bill]

I should have mentioned that the Auctioneers estimate is $15,000-$25,000 USD. Beautifully engraved guns like this are very few and fetch serious bucks.
The auction is this weekend and I'll post the realized price.

 

[Cow Town Bill]

I should have mentioned that the Auctioneers estimate is $15,000-$25,000 USD. Beautifully engraved guns like this are very few and fetch serious bucks.
The auction is this weekend and I'll post the realized price.

This wonderful piece sold for $19,975 US including buyers premium but excluding taxes.

 

[Cow Town Bill]

Here is another M21 from the same auction. This one is a Skeet Grade, 12 gauge with 26" barrels, all original and used but not abused, no engraving. It was likely made in the late 30's or early 40's when M21's were very popular with Skeet shooters. It has a single trigger with ejectors and beavertail forend which almost all skeet guns had; it has a pistol grip but many Skeet guns had a straight grip. It sold for $5288 US with buyers premium.

 

[Licensed to kill]

I just spotted this M21 at a US auction site and thought I would share it with CGN'ers. We rarely see high end M21's in this country so all the more reason to share this fine collectors piece. It's a 12 gauge trap gun built in 1941---its a 2 barrel set with the 30" vent rib barrels choked Mod and Full and the 26" barrels have had screw chokes added. The fine engraving and checkering was not done by Winchester, but rather by after market craftsmen. It has an estimated hammer price of $9000-$14000 US. If the gun was entirely by Winchester it would command significantly more.

View attachment 583490
View attachment 583491

If the engraving was done at the Winchester factory the quality would have been MUCH better. I have seen a LOT worse though.

 

[Cow Town Bill]

If the engraving was done at the Winchester factory the quality would have been MUCH better. I have seen a LOT worse though.

The advanced Winchester collector wants originality and that includes factory original engraving. Some after market engraving done by experts like Arnold Griebel (an example is shown on a previous note) is as good or better than factory engraving. Its up to each collector to decide where his interests lie and what fits his/her budget.

 

[Licensed to kill]

The advanced Winchester collector wants originality and that includes factory original engraving. Some after market engraving done by experts like Arnold Griebel (an example is shown on a previous note) is as good or better than factory engraving. Its up to each collector to decide where his interests lie and what fits his/her budget.

Understood. Griebel engraving would more than likely be better than factory. The engraving I was referring to was OK but not particularly good. The coverage and layout was nice but the execution was somewhat lacking

 

[Cow Town Bill]

Understood. Griebel engraving would more than likely be better than factory. The engraving I was referring to was OK but not particularly good. The coverage and layout was nice but the execution was somewhat lacking

I agree with you fully. Its rewarding to me that you have examined the guns so closely with an educated eye.
Bill

 

[Licensed to kill]

I agree with you fully. Its rewarding to me that you have examined the guns so closely with an educated eye.
Bill

Thanks Bill. Having done a bit of gun engraving, I have always been keenly interested in it. Used to study gun engraving and some gun engravers a fair bit. Lots of very talented people out there but lots of mediocre work as well often touted as wonderful by the typical shooter. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation. BTW,there is a gun on the previous page (iirc) with some very well done engraving that looks to be French Baroque in style. Not everyone’s cup of tea but I like it a lot.

 

[Cow Town Bill]

It's time to kick start this thread again. I had a couple of tables at Calgary's Easter Gun show. To my surprise I discovered 4 M21's being offered for sale. I have never seen this many M21's for sale at this show and I've been a participant for over 40 years. There was a Skeet, Trap, Duck and field gun being offered.
I managed to resist temptation, but I have to admit that these M21's whetted by collecting spirit.
I just had a quick look at an upcoming US Auction and spotted an interesting M21 that I wish to share with you. It's a 1970 Custom Grade, 20 ga with 3" chambers, vent rib and 28" mod and full chokes. This gun has a flat sided receiver that is better suited to engraving vs the standard receiver. And, in 95% or better condition.

 

[the spank]

It's time to kick start this thread again. I had a couple of tables at Calgary's Easter Gun show. To my surprise I discovered 4 M21's being offered for sale. I have never seen this many M21's for sale at this show and I've been a participant for over 40 years. There was a Skeet, Trap, Duck and field gun being offered.
I managed to resist temptation, but I have to admit that these M21's whetted by collecting spirit.
I just had a quick look at an upcoming US Auction and spotted an interesting M21 that I wish to share with you. It's a 1970 Custom Grade, 20 ga with 3" chambers, vent rib and 28" mod and full chokes. This gun has a flat sided receiver that is better suited to engraving vs the standard receiver. And, in 95% or better condition.

Prophet River has a 20ga skeet on consignment.

Consign - Winchester - 20Ga/2.75"/28 - Model 21 Skeet - SxS - Select Walnut English Grip Stock/Blued Finish, Mid-Bead - In A&F Leather Carry Case - Prophet River Firearms

 

[Cow Town Bill]

Prophet River has a 20ga skeet on consignment.

Consign - Winchester - 20Ga/2.75"/28 - Model 21 Skeet - SxS - Select Walnut English Grip Stock/Blued Finish, Mid-Bead - In A&F Leather Carry Case - Prophet River Firearms

Thanks for the link to a nice 20 gauge Skeet. All the M21's at the Easter gun show were 12 gauges. 20 gauges are harder to find.

 

[the spank]

Thanks for the link to a nice 20 gauge Skeet. All the M21's at the Easter gun show were 12 gauges. 20 gauges are harder to find.

You're welcome.

 

[Cow Town Bill]

I started this thread about 1 1/2 yrs ago and we have just recently past 5000 "hits" by interested enthusiasts. This achievement is rather remarkable considering that Winchester's production of M21's was a little over 30,000. Compare that to the millions of M12's that Winchester made. There must be truth to the claim that the Model 21 was Winchester's finest shotgun.
A while back a fellow M21 collector and I got together and compared our M21's and I would like to share a pic of three of our M21's.
The top gun is a factory engraved trap gun with #5 engraving which has been verified by a Winchester letter.
The center gun is a Tournament grade skeet gun with after market maple stock.
The bottom gun is a standard field grade gun with after market Briley choke tubes.
All three guns are in 12 gauge and are used regularly (albeit carefully) at clay target shooting and for upland bird hunting.