Liberal Handgun Ban?

The unfortunate reality is Andrew Sheer cannot win the election. I know so many strong conservative supporters that just don't like the guy or have much respect for him. I will grudgingly vote for him in this next round but you certainly won't get Canadians that are anywhere touching the middle to vote for him. The Conservatives only *sometimes* remember to do small things for gun owners when they are in power and just before they need us to vote for them. They have done a terrible job at taking real actions to support us. The best you can hope for looking at the actual landscape is a Liberal minority vs majority and then the NDP will help them push through any anti gun laws anyway. The diary lobby and evangelical groups are the only reason Sheer got the job and they have screwed every other conservative over in doing so by making it impossible for the Party to get even minority control let alone majority control in the next election. With Bernie leaving and now becoming an enemy of conservatives this will do even more damage, he could have helped a lot in Quebec, except for the dairy crowd of course.


Andrew Sheer is the Mp here in Regina His children attended Regina Christian School and I met him many times, so me no make di up

let us give him Justin's seat in 2019[/QUOTE]

Our only hope is to help the general public understand where the real focus is needed for them to actually get safer, going after criminals instead of waiting for them to create more victims. And we need to share factual information with obviously credible sources such as Stats Canada as often as we can. Debunk the lying stats the Liberals are spreading to change public opinion. Its too bad these rat bastards couldn't be reasonable and leave gun owners alone, I actually agree with a lot of their other policies (certainly not all) but a lot more than I agree with the NDP and a little more than I agree with Conservatives. I'm going to let me MP know that if this goes through I will not only never vote liberal but will vocally and financially dedicate a large amount of resources for the rest of my life to cost the Liberal party votes. Its not that I will align with another party so much as I will align with whatever will do the most damage to the LIberals until the day I die. I'm sure I'm not the only one who shares this sentiment.
 
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Gun control laws are a contentious issue and low hanging fruit for politicians. Best you can do here is keep reminding the voting public in a respectful and courteous manner that licenced gun owners are not perpetrating violent gun crimes. That we have been peacefully coexisting with the public for 150 years and that violent gun crime is the result of a declining standard of living amongst other things. Many people don't want to hear about it, they do however want to hear about broken election promises and other unpopular liberal policies and the fact that the liberals chose this issue to deflect from that. Speak their language and hopefully sway their vote. Bringing more people on side is helpful obviously, I suggest you start with fellow gun enthusiasts as they already speak our language. The liberals want this on the front page news, not the backlash surrounding their failing policies. Make their bad press the topic of discussion and we have a better chance of winning this thing.
 
ghostie said:
Well, it is either support him; box up your handguns and semi-autos and drop them off at the detachment; or wait for ERT to come and get them. You choose.
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On the long run, no matter how many people we convert, I don't think it's going to make a difference. Canadians are overwelmingly against firearms. We're pretty much fracked.

My plan ? secure enough money to move south of the border, bending over backward in the mean time, trying to escape the upcoming gulag.
 
ghostie said:
The Supreme Court of Canada's position on firearms in a nutshell: The regulation of firearms falls within the Federal government's power under section 91(27) of the Constitution Act, 1867, giving Parliament the power to make law related to the criminal law. Full stop. That is our nightmare version of the "2nd Amendment": Parliament has the full scope of power to regulate firearms as it sees fit. See Reference re Firearms Act (Can.) [2000] 1 SCR 783 for some really depressing reading if you have any doubt of that, or want to talk about the rights of Provinces in the area of "property and civil rights".
https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1794/index.do
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This answers a question I have had over the last while, and it IS depressing. But, isn't there a difference between regulating and effectively banning? If you regulate to the point where it might as well be banned, doesn't that go beyond what would have been contemplated in the constitution? At that point, could it be argued to conflict with certain basic rights in the constitution?

Edit:

And what about a province like Alberta using the notwithstanding clause?

I scanned just the first part of that link, and almost right away it talks about the Firearms Act and links to public safety. At some point, don't these general goals get met to a standard that is reasonable without going way beyond what is reasonable when you consider the negative impact it has on us being free to do as we please while not harming anyone as law abiding gun owners?

It just seems crazy to me the all these pet 'progressive' pet projects get challenged in court, and yet how do this issue never get it's day?
 
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ghostie said:
The least we can do is TRY to elect a Conservative government.
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You're alone on that. Harper was stupid enough to make it more difficult for permanent resident to get citizenship. Now you're all right, I'm not a Canadian so I can't understand your struggle, yadi, yada.

All in all, I thought Canada was a great balance between the US and Europe... I was probably wrong. As I mentioned, my plan are now to focus on shielding a ####load of money by any means (ie. even contrary to good morals, though still legal... kinda) and get a ranch in the US, in a friendly state.

edit: and I'll probably freeload on healthcare by hopefully keeping my future Canadian citizenship and a dummy residency in BC.

edit2: the CPC are center left (at best), probably too much on the left for my taste anyway, nothing close to "Conservative". Between a cuck and a cuck, there isn't much difference.
 
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Actually what happened was the Government of the time after Hungerford jumped on the emotion at the time and used the event to push through major gun control/confiscations somewhat how the Trudeau Government are doing with the TO shooting.
As an example Suppressors are legal in the UK so not to scare anyone when legal gun owners are using their weapons hunting.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2017/03/...-uk-american-tourist-brings-home-goes-prison/

I believe the only option left is to focus all energy on getting a Conservative Government into power, no polls, no letters, no emails just votes.
We are surrounded by sheeple who believe the police or the Government will come to their rescue at any time.
 
essorx said:
On the long run, no matter how many people we convert, I don't think it's going to make a difference. Canadians are overwelmingly against firearms. We're pretty much fracked.

My plan ? secure enough money to move south of the border, bending over backward in the mean time, trying to escape the upcoming gulag.
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Great idea! Unfortunately you won't be able to bring or own firearms 'south of the border' until you meet certain citizenship requirements. But hey! I'll look after them till you get that sorted.
 
ghostie said:
Well, it is either support him; box up your handguns and semi-autos and drop them off at the detachment; or wait for ERT to come and get them. You choose.
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I don't do blackmail, which is the CPC strategy. People have been owning unregistered firearms for 20+ years, I'll be fine.
 
ghostie said:
Sadly, I don't think so. Reading SCC decisions on firearms is a brutal, frustrating and demoralizing experience for gun owners.

Parliament's power to pass criminal law measures would have to come up against another constitutionally protected interest, like the right of Aboriginal people to hunt for "food, social and ceremonial purposes", in order to get a balancing of the rights going. This hasn't been fully litigated, but I don't think there is even a right for non-Aboriginal Canadians to own firearms for hunting, even on a subsistence basis. A counter argument could certainly be put forward, but I wouldn't hold my breath. In any event there is certainly no protection for sport shooting or collecting.

The last Canadians to privately own firearms will be Aboriginal subsistence hunters, but the whole firearms industry in Canada will be a distant memory at that point.
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:-(

The Liberals, those lying scumbags, said we promise no long gun registry. Never mind that C-71 is just a back door decentralized registry, they got us! We don't need a registry if we just ban everything.

I keep picturing that lying, sycophantic, hypocritical, arrogant, POS with his family all dressed up in ridiculous costumes on his trip in India. I tried to give that guy a chance. Seeing his face and that hair just fills me with anger.
 
ghostie said:
So you've already given up? Too bad. Make sure to take some pictures of your handguns and your semi-auto rifles before they come to pick them, which at the current rate of "progress" should be in about 2 years from now.

As the old saying goes: If you think you can, you might be right. If you think you can't, you're definitely right.

As the one person here who actually is a lawyer who has taken firearms cases through Canadian courts, both trial and appeal, I can tell you without reservation: don't waste your time. Nothing that happens in any court is going to do anything positive for gun owners (as a group, you can often times achieve really good outcomes for individuals). There isn't a single example of a case in the post-École Polytechnique period (1989-present), or call it the "R. v. Hasselwander to present" era in which any Canadian firearms legislation was interpreted in a way that favoured gun owners contrary to the position put forward by the state. Not one, folks. If you want to get really technical, there are a couple of low-level Provincial Court cases, but these were either explicitly overturned on appeal, or are implicitly overturned by superior court and appeal court cases.

The Supreme Court of Canada's position on firearms in a nutshell: The regulation of firearms falls within the Federal government's power under section 91(27) of the Constitution Act, 1867, giving Parliament the power to make law related to the criminal law. Full stop. That is our nightmare version of the "2nd Amendment": Parliament has the full scope of power to regulate firearms as it sees fit. See Reference re Firearms Act (Can.) [2000] 1 SCR 783 for some really depressing reading if you have any doubt of that, or want to talk about the rights of Provinces in the area of "property and civil rights".
https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1794/index.do

Contrast that with the Harper majority years... long-gun registry eliminated, ATTs folded into the PAL, beat back the RCMP on CZ-858s and Swiss Arms, etc., etc.. It wasn't perfect, but it was more... way more... because it was the ONLY.... time that the needle moved in the other direction in modern Canadian history.

The only way we are going to stop anything is with the Conservative Party. The rest of it means nothing. Courts don't matter. Letters don't matter. Polls and petitions don't matter.

If we don't accept that and get behind the Conservatives, then not just that battle, but the war, is already over - and we lost.

The least we can do is TRY to elect a Conservative government. But in typical Canadian fashion, most of us here aren't even going to try. Nobody thought Trudeau had ANY chance to win the election up until about mid-summer 2015. Tons of people around my way (Vancouver) swore up and down that the Conservatives would NEVER form another majority government in this country... ever... and particularly not with Stephen Harper. Hundreds of millions thought a Black man would never be President of the United States; Nobody thought the NDP could win a majority of seats in Quebec... and on and on it goes forever.

Don't give up before you even draw your sword. Nothing is set in stone when it comes to electoral politics.
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THESEUS said:
Actually what happened was the Government of the time after Hungerford jumped on the emotion at the time and used the event to push through major gun control/confiscations somewhat how the Trudeau Government are doing with the TO shooting.
As an example Suppressors are legal in the UK so not to scare anyone when legal gun owners are using their weapons hunting.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2017/03/...-uk-american-tourist-brings-home-goes-prison/

I believe the only option left is to focus all energy on getting a Conservative Government into power, no polls, no letters, no emails just votes.
We are surrounded by sheeple who believe the police or the Government will come to their rescue at any time.
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A Conservative Government is our only chance to be left alone. Hoping we can get them in on 2019 .... :)
 
One of the simple things to remember is that enemies will often tell you what they think and intend to do .....before they do it.

The libranos have reaffirmed that they are our enemies. Even if it doesnt go through this time, which it might, we need to listen. They are at the least ...priming the pump....through a deliberate and misleading media campaign.

Time for the liberals to go. Not just as a government, but as a party .....time for the pendulum to swing back.
 
Did your coworker vote Liberal? he have not but I know of a few that do...and I dont understand their "logic"...but the fact is there are gun owners that vote their rights away every time they vote Fiberal or NDP
 
winruger said:
Did your coworker vote Liberal? he have not but I know of a few that do...and I dont understand their "logic"...but the fact is there are gun owners that vote their rights away every time they vote Fiberal or NDP
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A few here voted liberals, they have been very silent lately
 
Agree, Mr. W.

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.”
― Carl Sandburg

The law is against us, but the facts are on our side. So, argue the facts... and pound the table. Constantly draw attention to the facts - the reality that takes away the fear.

The Liberals are arguing the fear, because fear is a short-cut to compliance. Rob them of the fear, and people will resent them for fear-mongering and treating them like children. Use their fear against them.

Information is our path to victory, fear to defeat. Stop hiding in the shadows.
 
Good lord.

You guys will never learn. You aren't going to 'educate' Lefty. Most of you think of political liberals as clueless but otherwise well meaning people. In the last 20 years these guys launched abortive attacks on the freedom of speech, the right to private property, the right to free speech, to freedom of religion - and they've tried to establish state censorship. That's just for starters. During the years of Jean Poutine Cretin every second liberal was a bag man stuffing his pockets with tax payer and lobbyist's cash. You old hands might remember a liberal hack named Alan Rock, and how he waved his pudgy little fists around while screeching about house-by-house searches for illegal duck and deer guns.

Do you really think these guys are going to give you a fair shake? Every time these guys get into power they take a run at us. Every time the result is law that is so bad, it would be right at home in a third world country. It's so bad, the cops won't enforce it, and the courts will only pay it the merest lip service.


And here we go again. Conservative cucks will argue courteously and firmly with Lefty, the liberals will lie and cheat, and the cuckservatives will go down in a noble defeat.
 
Dirk72 said:
Do you really think these guys are going to give you a fair shake?
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Nope. You will never move the antis. You will never change the opinion of hard-core die-hard Liberals. It's a waste of time even trying.

But the 60% to 80% in the middle don't have entrenched opinions. Their opinions are shaped by what they are told, and they are the ones who elect governments.

Conservatives will always vote Conservative. Liberals will always vote Liberal.

But last election only 2/3rds of eligible voters voted, and the difference between a rock-solid Liberal majority and a Conservative wipe-out was 1.3 million votes. Move 5% to 10% in the middle and the Conservatives are now making the laws. (For what that's been worth lately...)

You don't have to move everyone. You have to move 1 in 10.
 
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