Light Magnum 30/06

[Fox]

I am finally getting on this 30/06 project. Since I have options for 140-180gr bullets in other cartridges I will be going "Light Magnum" with this rifle. The rifle is a parker hale and I will be running 2 scopes, 1 for each cartridge, unless for some crazy reason they have the same POI.

The first load will be using a 220gr Hornady bullet pushed by IMR4831, I have tons of that powder since I use it for another cartridge as well so wanted to use it for this "bush" load. The plan is to keep the max velocity under 2500fps, not sure what my rifle will let me get up to. The question here, has anyone run into any issues with fragmentation at 2500fps with this RN bullet? Hornady claims a max velocity of 3100fps for that bullet (I emailed to ask) but at 3000fps I expect violent expansion.

The second load is going to be a 200gr Nosler Partition over H4831, I wanted to have a really stable powder for this so went to H rather than IMR. I could use H4831 for both loads but with the pile of IMR powder I thought I would use it with the 220gr which I will have less concerns about velocity spread as I will not push max loads for the 220gr load. The question for this one, who loads this in a sporting rifle? What expectation of real world velocity should I have? Hodgdon lists 2586 with a 59.0gr compressed load as max for a noser accubond, the partition is shorter so for the same COAL I should get less pressure at that max load and or end up with higher velocity without pressure signs at a slightly higher load.

I am not quite sure of the magazine max length though yet, have to setup a dummy round and cycle it with both loads to make sure I have a reliable COAL for these loads.

Thanks guys

 

[Ganderite]

I see a big velocity variation with ammo from the same box comparing 2 'identical" rifles. I have see 150 fps difference from one rifle to the next.

So when you ask about velocity, or look at the book, it does not mean much. Work up a load for your rifle, and it is whatever it is.

 

[Fox]

I see a big velocity variation with ammo from the same box comparing 2 'identical" rifles. I have see 150 fps difference from one rifle to the next.

So when you ask about velocity, or look at the book, it does not mean much. Work up a load for your rifle, and it is whatever it is.

Ok, was just trying to see from others experiences if the book value has any value.

I loaded up 30/06 180gr BT for a 7600 rifle and loaded and crimped at the cannelure I am running faster than factory and almost bang on the Hodgdon numbers for velocity, which was not expected as I have been told that the 7600 runs slow due to the long throat of remington barrels.

 

[rral22]

Ganderite is correct.

You seem to be obsessing over differences that you can't predict, that may be what you expect or may NOT be, and that seem to me to be way too much trouble for what you may, or may not, get. Two scopes?? Why not just adjust one scope to the loads? I would never trust that a scope I unmounted and then remounted would return to the zero I had it at before I changed it, without testing at the range anyway, so you will not save any sighting shots or testing by switching scopes. The differences in your loads may work the way you think, but their differences in hunting performance may well be undetectable in real life. My advice would be to develop one good load for the gun, with one good bullet, using one good scope, and then go hunting.

 

[Fox]

Ganderite is correct.

You seem to be obsessing over differences that you can't predict, that may be what you expect or may NOT be, and that seem to me to be way too much trouble for what you may, or may not, get. Two scopes?? Why not just adjust one scope to the loads? I would never trust that a scope I unmounted and then remounted would return to the zero I had it at before I changed it, without testing at the range anyway, so you will not save any sighting shots or testing by switching scopes. The differences in your loads may work the way you think, but their differences in hunting performance may well be undetectable in real life. My advice would be to develop one good load for the gun, with one good bullet, using one good scope, and then go hunting.

See, you have things all wrong here, there is no obsession. Getting an idea of what others have shot with a bullet not listed in the chart helps with building a load as it can help be a guide for pressure issues. If the velocity I get is well over what another person has as a load or well below for the same load then there are things to look at. Pressure signs do not always say the same thing, a flat primer means nothing in some cases, especially if they are Federal primers, yet velocities jumping around on increases in powder can say a lot more. I am trying to get as much information as possible as a guide and then use that with my loads.

As for the 2 scopes, I have Weaver bases and QD mounts. The 220gr bullets are not going to be setup for long range, the magnification on that scope is lower because I expect the range to be closer when using them. The 200gr partition is going to be setup for longer range with a higher magnification scope. I do know that I will be needing to verify zero on changing scopes but I will not have to torgue rings, adjust eye relief, align scope, or start over with bore sighting and hitting paper at 25 yards when switching between scopes, it will be a lot easier to move back and forth when I want to.

One gun, one load, one bullet, one scope and go hunting, seems boring to me, I like to be able change things up, brings some joy to life. If I only had 1 rifle to shoot and hunt with it would be pretty boring to me, so I have some variety.

 

[RRH.01]

Why wouldn’t you learn the poi difference and adjust the scope?? Your going to have to confirm zero with a switch scope setup anyway, we are talking about shooting live animals, why bother with the extra scope? They both sound like the are variable zoom?

Ganderite is correct.

You seem to be obsessing over differences that you can't predict, that may be what you expect or may NOT be, and that seem to me to be way too much trouble for what you may, or may not, get. Two scopes?? Why not just adjust one scope to the loads? I would never trust that a scope I unmounted and then remounted would return to the zero I had it at before I changed it, without testing at the range anyway, so you will not save any sighting shots or testing by switching scopes. The differences in your loads may work the way you think, but their differences in hunting performance may well be undetectable in real life. My advice would be to develop one good load for the gun, with one good bullet, using one good scope, and then go hunting.

I agree. Id load up the AB, learn the ballistics, buy another rifle for that other scope to go on and be done with it, they preform up close just as well as the RN. Cant think of why you would you purposely set a gun up exclusively for close or long range of it can do both? If you dead set on the two weights(why who knows the AB is a great bullet) learn the differences in POI and adjust from there. What advantage does the RN and 20 grains give you?

 

[Fox]

I guess nobody has reloaded the 220gr hornady or 200gr NP when, no worries, sorry for bothering to ask.

 

[Lefty Dick]

I reloaded both in 2 different rifles.

Managed 2600ish with the 200’s from a 22” bbl, shot a couple deer with the load(I knows way too much bullet) the deer died, the bullet exited the carnage wasn’t like a ballistic tip or a SST for sure, but it wasn’t a whole lot different than a 165 cup core either.

The 220’s were loaded on a lark in a repro 1895 Saddle Ring carbine, they shot well, and although never chronographed they grouped well over iron sights, seeing that you’ll never get these over 2700 FPS I’d wager the bullets will just cleave on through game.

 

[Fox]

I reloaded both in 2 different rifles.

Managed 2600ish with the 200’s from a 22” bbl, shot a couple deer with the load(I knows way too much bullet) the deer died, the bullet exited the carnage wasn’t like a ballistic tip or a SST for sure, but it wasn’t a whole lot different than a 165 cup core either.

The 220’s were loaded on a lark in a repro 1895 Saddle Ring carbine, they shot well, and although never chronographed they grouped well over iron sights, seeing that you’ll never get these over 2700 FPS I’d wager the bullets will just cleave on through game.

This is exactly what I was looking for, getting an idea or a ballpark.

The 200gr load is a moose/bear load, that is the plan anyway. I have a higher magnification scope for it as the expectation would be for longer shots.

The 220gr bullet is one that I got 200 bullets for, wanted to make something that would hit slow and not do a heck of a lot of damage. I know that impact velocity has a lot to do with it. I would rather a deer at close range hit with a 30-30 170gr than a 270 130gr or 30/06 150gr any day of the week, the meat damage is insane when you run the impact velocity up that high.

The 220gr bullet should give a MPBR of 225 yards on a 6in kill zone if I can get them to 2400fps, the 200gr at 2550fps should get me a MPBR of 250 yards and over 1500 ft lbs of energy out past 400 yards, not that I would be shooting the far.

I have been bugged to get up to the Yukon for a Bison hunt and I am not buying new guns for a single hunt, might as well load this 30/06 a little heavier and be able to shoot it.

 

[BCBRAD]

I guess nobody has reloaded the 220gr hornady or 200gr NP when, no worries, sorry for bothering to ask.

I use a 200gn Accubond in the 30-06, the rifle is a Sako Finnlight.

H-4350, H-414 and RL-17 or similar burn rate powders work just fine for hunting ( I use H-414 at 2690 ft/s muzzle velocity). Expect 2650 to 2700 ft/s and a bit for velocities.

My 1:11 twist bbl does compromise the BC about 1-2% which is no biggy at hunting distances to 500m.

For generally hunting a 6X scope is good for shots from 50 feet to 500m, also , 6X works on steel well out past 1000 m.

The 220gn cup and core bullets in an '06 back in the day were useful as core bonding was not as technically advanced as now. So a 220 trundling along at <2400 ft/s with an impact speed much less than that insures that the bullet has some chance at performing as it should. Also, most '06's have a 1:10 twist which is marginal or not enough for for the long blunt nosed bullet, accuracy may not be good.

A good controlled expansion bullet designed for 30-06 velocities in the 165 to 180 gns will do the job. A 200 Accubond is more of the same and is about the top weight that has ranging ability and impact energy.

 

[mbogo3]

Ken Waters Pet Loads........220gr Hornady/3.23 OAL.........56gr-H4831.....2470fps.........7/8" group.................52gr IMR4350.......220gr Sierra/2456fps.......13/16" group

 

[Lefty Dick]

1 in 10 Twist is specifically designed to stabilize 220 gr round nose bullets, in Hatcher‘a Notebook this is the example used when discussing the Greenhill Formula.

 

[Fox]

I use a 200gn Accubond in the 30-06, the rifle is a Sako Finnlight.

H-4350, H-414 and RL-17 or similar burn rate powders work just fine for hunting ( I use H-414 at 2690 ft/s muzzle velocity). Expect 2650 to 2700 ft/s and a bit for velocities.

My 1:11 twist bbl does compromise the BC about 1-2% which is no biggy at hunting distances to 500m.

For generally hunting a 6X scope is good for shots from 50 feet to 500m, also , 6X works on steel well out past 1000 m.

The 220gn cup and core bullets in an '06 back in the day were useful as core bonding was not as technically advanced as now. So a 220 trundling along at <2400 ft/s with an impact speed much less than that insures that the bullet has some chance at performing as it should. Also, most '06's have a 1:10 twist which is marginal or not enough for for the long blunt nosed bullet, accuracy may not be good.

A good controlled expansion bullet designed for 30-06 velocities in the 165 to 180 gns will do the job. A 200 Accubond is more of the same and is about the top weight that has ranging ability and impact energy.

According to Berger's twist rate calculator the 220gr RN from Hornady will have no problems stabilizing in the 1 in 10 twist of a 30/06, this is the old hold over twist rate from the 30/40 Krag, which was designed for these bullets.

A big part of having these bullets is the cost, I picked up 200 Hornady 220gr RN bullets for $30, I can do a lot of shooting without breaking the bank, a lot more than the Accubond bullets. I also really do not like high velocity, I have seen the damage they do on many occasions, would rather hit game at 2500fps than 3000fps any day of the week.

As for the magnification, 6x in Ontario woods is almost impossible to use in most situations, there is rarely open ground. I picked up a 1.5-6x44mm scope for the 220s, have the 6x for farther out but 1.5 is what is will stay at when I am on the watch.

 

[Fox]

Ken Waters Pet Loads........220gr Hornady/3.23 OAL.........56gr-H4831.....2470fps.........7/8" group.................52gr IMR4350.......220gr Sierra/2456fps.......13/16" group

Perfect, this s below max in the book now, this is not going to be exactly what I get but exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks

 

[littlehughey]

I really like your idea for a dual load rifle, Ive considered something similar in my 375 Ruger with two QD scopes. Keep this thread going with updates on your progress.

 

[Eagleye]

I have never shot the 220 in any 30-06 I have owned, but I always carry a few 200 grain
Nosler partitions [the semi-spitzer variant] over 5x.x grains of Norma MRP. It clocks
2710 in my 24" Lazerguard, and shoots under ¾ moa consistently.

I see no reason why you could not come within spitting distance of my 200 grain load, using
H4831. Dave.

 

[boxhitch]

You have the 220's so that is that
but for LRish why not step up to 180s or even 165s
check the energy and ballistic for 180, there is advantage to the higher speed possible vs 200

 

[nowarningshot]

Powder choice is rather old school, if performance is the goal, modern powders and projectile truly push into "light magnum".

In the past i have loaded and worked up a very accurate speedy small for caliber general purpose load, then carried a few large projectile Bear stompers. For example 235gr 375 rum loads with a few 300 gr Partition.

 

[Fox]

Powder choice is rather old school, if performance is the goal, modern powders and projectile truly push into "light magnum".

In the past i have loaded and worked up a very accurate speedy small for caliber general purpose load, then carried a few large projectile Bear stompers. For example 235gr 375 rum loads with a few 300 gr Partition.

Trusted stability is something I was thinking about, but bigger to me is availability of powder in the area.

 

[Fox]

You have the 220's so that is that
but for LRish why not step up to 180s or even 165s
check the energy and ballistic for 180, there is advantage to the higher speed possible vs 200

The crazy thing is that the 200gr ballistics are not all that much different if you use a maximum point blank range system rather than zero at 100 and use hood over, like many use.

The 180gr is a great matched bullet to the 3006, I just looked up the MBPR with a 6in target, the 180gr NP will be about 270 yards, the 200gr NP will give you a MPBR of 255 yards or so. The energy at that range for the 180gr is 2040ft lbs or so, the 200gr is about 1990ft lbs, not very much difference there. The sectional density though of the 200gr bullet jumps up, it is for deep penetration on game.

They hit about the same out further but the 200gr bullet will penetrate more.