Loading for ruger#1 303 British
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Gatehouse I don't know how you have come along from the original vertical stringing problem, but I will give you my 2C
You have 2 separate issues here. Both show the same symptom, vertical stringing.
#1 -On the ladder test. The reason you are seeing big jumps in height with your ladder tests is because at slower velocities the trajectory of the bullet really starts to flatten out with a small increases in speed. If you do a ladder test with a 30-30 for example you will see the same thing. Also there is the issue of BBL timing. The slower the bullet is traveling down the bbl the more the muzzle will rise before the bullet exits. A small increase in recoil can make a big difference in how high the muzzle rises before the bullet exits. I have played with this phenomenon while reloading for double rifles. I bet if you keep ladder testing up into the higher velocities the amount of vertical jump will decrease as the velocity increases.
-On your groups. I would chronograph your 3 shot groups. The fliers may be always be slightly higher or lower in speed. The small difference in speed may cause the bullet to impact in a different location on the target meaning there is nothing wrong with the rifle.
#2 You may have a issue with your rifle causing it to shoot vertical fliers with the same powder charge. I had the same problem with a #1 that you have. First shot high, the rest of them in a nice group 2" lower. Bedding the for end and floating the bbl may help, and be sure the 1/4 rib is not touching the front of the action. Also keep in mind two piece stock rifles like the #1, NEF handy, lever actions and Lee's can vertical string because the resting the forend in the bag is ultimately pushing the bbl upwards. If you push down on the rifle when it is in the bags the bbl is being "bent" upwards.
You have 2 separate issues here. Both show the same symptom, vertical stringing.
#1 -On the ladder test. The reason you are seeing big jumps in height with your ladder tests is because at slower velocities the trajectory of the bullet really starts to flatten out with a small increases in speed. If you do a ladder test with a 30-30 for example you will see the same thing. Also there is the issue of BBL timing. The slower the bullet is traveling down the bbl the more the muzzle will rise before the bullet exits. A small increase in recoil can make a big difference in how high the muzzle rises before the bullet exits. I have played with this phenomenon while reloading for double rifles. I bet if you keep ladder testing up into the higher velocities the amount of vertical jump will decrease as the velocity increases.
-On your groups. I would chronograph your 3 shot groups. The fliers may be always be slightly higher or lower in speed. The small difference in speed may cause the bullet to impact in a different location on the target meaning there is nothing wrong with the rifle.
#2 You may have a issue with your rifle causing it to shoot vertical fliers with the same powder charge. I had the same problem with a #1 that you have. First shot high, the rest of them in a nice group 2" lower. Bedding the for end and floating the bbl may help, and be sure the 1/4 rib is not touching the front of the action. Also keep in mind two piece stock rifles like the #1, NEF handy, lever actions and Lee's can vertical string because the resting the forend in the bag is ultimately pushing the bbl upwards. If you push down on the rifle when it is in the bags the bbl is being "bent" upwards.
- Location
- North Western Ontario
I have shot mine with 150, 180 and 200. The 180 and 200 are the tightest at1" and 1.25" respectively.
Randy
And what were you using for powder in those loads ?
I bedded the forend tip, which is supposed to make forend pressure more consitent to achieve better accuracy.
Treid my 150gr TSX load today, nothign changed- about 1.5" groups.
Tried 150gr Sierras...Probably going to give up on this bullet!
Was all over the place.
Tried some 220 gr cast bullets- Vertical stringing again, but I don't shoot many cast bullets so I should get some more appropriate powder to try those again...
Big surprise was working up a load with 123gr .310 Hornadys intended for the 7.62x39
First 3 charges touched bullet holes, then one a little higher and the last 2 jumped up an inch but touched each other. Almost 3000fps, too- Which I thought was a sorta funny number in a .303 British.
I am sure ther eis a really accurate fun load in there. DOn't think I will use these bullets at 3000fps for deer hunitng!
This gives me more questions than answers, really. Better muck around wiht that rifle some more!
I have yet to get ahold of some heavy bullets, that could be an issue, too. Seems like this rifle liked the 174gr factory ammo but hasn't liked most of the 150gr Sierra and the 150gr TSX is okay, but not spectacular. Maybe it only lights undersized bullets and long bullets?
Treid my 150gr TSX load today, nothign changed- about 1.5" groups.
Tried 150gr Sierras...Probably going to give up on this bullet!
Was all over the place.Tried some 220 gr cast bullets- Vertical stringing again, but I don't shoot many cast bullets so I should get some more appropriate powder to try those again...
Big surprise was working up a load with 123gr .310 Hornadys intended for the 7.62x39
First 3 charges touched bullet holes, then one a little higher and the last 2 jumped up an inch but touched each other. Almost 3000fps, too- Which I thought was a sorta funny number in a .303 British.
I am sure ther eis a really accurate fun load in there. DOn't think I will use these bullets at 3000fps for deer hunitng!
This gives me more questions than answers, really. Better muck around wiht that rifle some more!
I have yet to get ahold of some heavy bullets, that could be an issue, too. Seems like this rifle liked the 174gr factory ammo but hasn't liked most of the 150gr Sierra and the 150gr TSX is okay, but not spectacular. Maybe it only lights undersized bullets and long bullets?
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here's my data so far on my No1-A
150 gr. - Sierra SP @ 3.0", 45.0 grs Varget, WLR ~ 2640 fps, 2.5" 5 shot 100m
- Sierra SP @ 3.0", 10.0 grs Trail Boss, WLR ~ 1185 fps
- Barnes TSX @ 3.14", 44.5 grs IMR 8208xbr, WLR ~ 2725 fps
165gr - 308" Nosler Accubond @ 3.15", 49.0 grs RL17, WLR ~ waiting to be tested!
180gr - Sierra SP @ 3.1", 47.0 grs RL17, WLR ~ 2400 fps, 2.25" 5 shot 100m
- Factory W-W Silvertips ~ 2300 fps
150 gr. - Sierra SP @ 3.0", 45.0 grs Varget, WLR ~ 2640 fps, 2.5" 5 shot 100m
- Sierra SP @ 3.0", 10.0 grs Trail Boss, WLR ~ 1185 fps
- Barnes TSX @ 3.14", 44.5 grs IMR 8208xbr, WLR ~ 2725 fps
165gr - 308" Nosler Accubond @ 3.15", 49.0 grs RL17, WLR ~ waiting to be tested!
180gr - Sierra SP @ 3.1", 47.0 grs RL17, WLR ~ 2400 fps, 2.25" 5 shot 100m
- Factory W-W Silvertips ~ 2300 fps
I just bought a .303 No.1A with good wood off of Clay yesterday. Should be here in a couple of days. I'll start reloading for it soon enough.
I have shot quite a few No.1's in past. Some were total tack drivers some were not.
This is a great thread and thank you everyone for posting some great information.
I have shot quite a few No.1's in past. Some were total tack drivers some were not.
This is a great thread and thank you everyone for posting some great information.
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Well I've tried two loads so far and both exhibit the same vertical stringing/flyer symptom. The first was 150gr speers, H380 and cci primers. My gun likes to throw the first round low and the rest higher. Many groups were >1" wide but 2-3" high. There were a few groups that weren't too bad but they were at the wrong end of the load development to provide any useful velocity with H380. I didn't chronograph them. I think you are right and I will have to look into the forend a bit closer.
........Tried 150gr Sierras...Probably going to give up on this bullet!
........I have yet to get ahold of some heavy bullets, that could be an issue, too. Seems like this rifle liked the 174gr factory ammo but hasn't liked most of the 150gr Sierra and the 150gr TSX is okay, but not spectacular. Maybe it only lights undersized bullets and long bullets?
Very strange that my second load was 150 sierras and they shot much better than the speers. IVI brass, IMR4320 and F210 primers. My max load was 44.5 grains and that produced an honest 5 shot, 1" group. I didn't load any higher because I was a little leery of the IVI brass capacity. There were no over-pressure signs whatsoever and I will work up a little higher with a chronograph as my gun seemed to like the sierras driven fast. As a side note: Republic of Alberta's comments about small increases in speed producing large changes in trajectory are bang on. From the start load of 4320 to my max I gained about 8". Still lots of vertical fliers though.
I have some 174gr fmj's that I think I will try next to see if the heavier bullet theory has any merit.
I like the look of these numbers as well from their site.
150 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon BL-C(2) .312" 2.995" 43.0 2502 34,000 CUP 48.0 2756 39,200 CUP .
So I bedded the forend where the screw goes through and also where the forend contacts the receiver at the rear.
Ended up with 150gr TSX with 2 close together and the third one out an inch. And the 150 Sierras I had given up on shoot 1.5" now. I'm good to go
150TSX
Ended up with 150gr TSX with 2 close together and the third one out an inch. And the 150 Sierras I had given up on shoot 1.5" now. I'm good to go
150TSX
303EppsFan
CGN Regular
- Location
- Almonte,Ontario
Took my brand new #1A 303 Brit. out today. Shot it with some loads I had on hand for another rifle. They fit nicely in this chamber and being a mild load I was good to go. Four shots had it zeroed at 100 yards.
1st group 3 shots measured 13/16th center to center. Nice triangular group.
2nd group 3 shots measured 1" center to center. Also a nice triangular group.(Shot by my 15 year old son.)
The load was 43 gr RL15, Sierra .311 150 gr, CCI large rifle and WW cases. This chronographed 2500 fps in a Parker Hale #4 sporter.
Didn't have time for more shooting as I was also working with another rifle but this looks promising.
1st group 3 shots measured 13/16th center to center. Nice triangular group.
2nd group 3 shots measured 1" center to center. Also a nice triangular group.(Shot by my 15 year old son.)
The load was 43 gr RL15, Sierra .311 150 gr, CCI large rifle and WW cases. This chronographed 2500 fps in a Parker Hale #4 sporter.
Didn't have time for more shooting as I was also working with another rifle but this looks promising.
For my next load I tried some more "conventional components. Still using IVI brass, WLR primer, I picked 174gr round-nose and IMR4350. The gun seems to like heaviier bullets, the vertical flyers seemed to disappear for the most part and the groups looked more "group-like" rather than a string of holes. The very first group I shot was the smallest, just under an inch but the velocity would have been very low; it was well below the starting load.
These next loads were at book max; first group was 46.0gr, the second 46.5gr. The flyer in the 46.0gr load was the only shot out of 50 rounds that I considered a flyer and I'm not at all convinced it wasn't shooter error rather than an actual flyer.
Not exactly a tack driver but much better than any 150gr loads I've tried so far.
These next loads were at book max; first group was 46.0gr, the second 46.5gr. The flyer in the 46.0gr load was the only shot out of 50 rounds that I considered a flyer and I'm not at all convinced it wasn't shooter error rather than an actual flyer.
Not exactly a tack driver but much better than any 150gr loads I've tried so far.
just order some of Steve Redgwell's .314" diameter bullets. Made right here in Canada, they are specifically designed for this exact scenario, accurate, hard hitting and hold together at 303 Br velocities .
Ted
Ted
I whipped up a dummy for the Stoney Point OAL length gauge this evening. There's not a chance in hell of getting anywhere close to the lands with any 150gr bullets I have on the shelf, matter of fact, even the 174gr round-nose (.312) still didn't leave enough bullet in the neck for my liking. Anyone else try to reach the lands?
