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You can use a AR charging handle in the raven 9
Lockhart Tactical Raven 9 thoughts, impressions and reviews
- Thread starter CV32
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While all three charging handles have the same characteristics the Ar15 is to short and the AR 10 is to long. The Raven9 charging handle fits in the middle. I guess the longer AR10 might fit but it would not lock given it is to long. Not sure how a shorter charging handle would fit or work. I don't own an AR just a Raven9 and a FX9 in this style of PCC. I'll check and see if the FX9 charging handle will fit in the Raven
I suspect it won't. Just checked, it wont, to short.
Take Care
Bob
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I took the charging handle from my prohib AR9 and used it in my Raven 9.
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Huh?
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It's this one. Which is a AR-15 handle.
https://www.rainierarms.com/radian-weapons-ar-15-raptor-lt-ambidextrous-charging-handle/
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No where on this forum have I stated the Lockhart Raven is an AR.
I was not building an AR, I built a Raven in .223. (with the mid-sized upper receiver and mid-sized mag well).
I also have another Raven in 9mm. (with the short upper receiver and short mag well)
I'm well aware of the differences between all three.
As I stated, using the 'plug' on a 'mid' sized build utilizing the 'mid' sized carrier is a no-go. You either have to run the proprietary mid-sized Raven top charging handle or run the side charger with no 'plug' - I highly recommend against the later.
The plug will only work with a PCC, as it works off of delayed blow-back. Physically installing the plug on an intermediate cartridge chambered rifle like .223 is impossible with the carrier, and it stands to reason the same will be true of the full powered cartridge chambered rifles like .308 and 6.5 Creedmore.
You can try re-using the as-supplied buffer and spring that comes with the 9mm in a .223 chambered rifle, but you will undoubtedly have issues with its operation.
The spring is too short and not the correct spring rate for a gasser and the buffer is too heavy. I'd stick with standard buffers and springs (carbine and rifle - depending on what buttstock one attaches) that work in AR15s for a .223 (or any intermediate cartridge) gasser.
One last time: the Raven 9 I bought came with the side charging handle and I replaced it with a top charging handle from one of my AR-15s, so no, the Raven9 does not use a proprietary charging handle. The intermediate length receiver that is used on builds for .223, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, etc. is slightly longer than the PCC receiver, and that uses a proprietary charging handle.
I haven't taken any photos of this, but if you need visuals, let me know.
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It is possible to use the side charger on all 3 and use the plug. No need for a top charger if a guy didn’t want to. The first raven 9 I got was one of the blem/demo models that didn’t have the top. Charger as an option. (Messed up machining) so it came with the plug. The plug is held in place by an Allen key that is accessible from underneath with the bolt in about the half way position. (Basically where your trigger would sit while the bolts in battery) it would be a bit of a pain to have to remove it for cleaning every time but to use the side charger you have to remove that as well. I sent Bob some pics of the 223 with the plug in place just in case anyone is wondering. Hopefully he’ll be able to get them posted
The raven really is a great design and there’s an option for everyone. If I guy really was against a top charger he is still able to get a raven and use the side charger.
The raven really is a great design and there’s an option for everyone. If I guy really was against a top charger he is still able to get a raven and use the side charger.
Beltfed now I understand where you are coming from. When you change the magwell on the Raven 9 to accomodate the longer cartridge you end up with a mid length receiver.
For someone who wanted to save a $100 or who was not a fan of the top charging handle can order his .223 Lockhart with a side charging handle and plug.
I'll post the pictures here. I have some chores to do and then I will post them.
I was wrong about the charging handle being proprietary.
The first picture below shows the back of the 223 upper where the plug goes.
The 2nd picture shows the opened upper with the plug installed on John's 223.
The third picture shows the underside of the back of the upper where an Allen key goes to lock the plug in place
The last picture shows the plug in place and the upper/lower closed with the plug in place.
John is off to Alaska and will be back next Thursday. He will remove the dust cover, covering the ;eft side of the receiver and install the side charging handle and do some shooting. When shooting IDPA matches with my FX9 to slide lock I invariably pull on the top charging handle and fail to unlock it from the backl of the receiver due to llack of practice and simply grabbing the handle is such a way as it woulod bind and not open immediately. MY response was to not lock the charging handle in place and this system worked fine though I found I was lowering or adjusting my hold on the carbine which required a readjustment before I could re;locate and fire on target.
With the Raven9 in practice using the side charging handle I found:
1. there was no delay as there was not catch to unlock to release thew charging handle
2. there seemed to be more leverage on the side charging handle which required less effot to pull the handle back to charge the gun
3. the gun remained on target or shifted less allowing for slightly faster return to target than was the case with the charging handle. NOsw these conclusions are very subjective. For you who have been wedded to the AR platform these issues may be of no concern or nonexistent. But for me who has used the Scorpian, CX4 Storm or Kiddon Kit the side charging handle is at the very least more comfortable and faster. As John stated in his post, one of the benefits of the Lockhart design it allows for a number of different options for the shooter. If you have used side charging handles in the past and want a Lockhart carbine you can save yourself $100 and just order the gun with side charging handles. I an going to phone Lockhart in the morning and order a plug for my Raven9MM.
Take Care
Bob
For someone who wanted to save a $100 or who was not a fan of the top charging handle can order his .223 Lockhart with a side charging handle and plug.
I'll post the pictures here. I have some chores to do and then I will post them.
I was wrong about the charging handle being proprietary.
The first picture below shows the back of the 223 upper where the plug goes.
The 2nd picture shows the opened upper with the plug installed on John's 223.
The third picture shows the underside of the back of the upper where an Allen key goes to lock the plug in place
The last picture shows the plug in place and the upper/lower closed with the plug in place.
John is off to Alaska and will be back next Thursday. He will remove the dust cover, covering the ;eft side of the receiver and install the side charging handle and do some shooting. When shooting IDPA matches with my FX9 to slide lock I invariably pull on the top charging handle and fail to unlock it from the backl of the receiver due to llack of practice and simply grabbing the handle is such a way as it woulod bind and not open immediately. MY response was to not lock the charging handle in place and this system worked fine though I found I was lowering or adjusting my hold on the carbine which required a readjustment before I could re;locate and fire on target.
With the Raven9 in practice using the side charging handle I found:
1. there was no delay as there was not catch to unlock to release thew charging handle
2. there seemed to be more leverage on the side charging handle which required less effot to pull the handle back to charge the gun
3. the gun remained on target or shifted less allowing for slightly faster return to target than was the case with the charging handle. NOsw these conclusions are very subjective. For you who have been wedded to the AR platform these issues may be of no concern or nonexistent. But for me who has used the Scorpian, CX4 Storm or Kiddon Kit the side charging handle is at the very least more comfortable and faster. As John stated in his post, one of the benefits of the Lockhart design it allows for a number of different options for the shooter. If you have used side charging handles in the past and want a Lockhart carbine you can save yourself $100 and just order the gun with side charging handles. I an going to phone Lockhart in the morning and order a plug for my Raven9MM.
Take Care
Bob
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OK - I concede that it can be installed via this method; put the carrier in half-way and come up from the bottom with the cap screw through one of the voids in the carrier - but it still isn't a viable option when you consider that you need to disassemble this every time you want to remove the bolt and you either give up the shell deflector on the right or the left side closure plate.
Beltfed we are both learning here which is good. I don't have John's AR with me but with the plug installed why would you have to remove it to remove the bolt? All the plug does is it sits where the top charging handle site and it sits flush. The bolt carrier would simply slide out with the bolt would it not? See pic 2 and and three above. The Allen key screws into the extension of the rail. if you look at a Raven9 there is a threaded hole there. I assume the Allen key when installed to hold the plug in place is flush allowing the carrier group to retreat into the buffer tube unhindered. No?
I am contacting Lockhart in the morning to order the plug. I'll see what they have to say. I am seriously considering buying the conversion kit in .223 for my Raven. NOt sure why at this point other than my two boys can fight over who gets it. I am now a long ways from Expert in IDPA SSP Division now and my PCC times are something less than staller but dad man's suits have no pockets so what the hell...its only money....
I will be up your way next spring so we will have to get together for a beer.
Take Care
Bob
I am contacting Lockhart in the morning to order the plug. I'll see what they have to say. I am seriously considering buying the conversion kit in .223 for my Raven. NOt sure why at this point other than my two boys can fight over who gets it. I am now a long ways from Expert in IDPA SSP Division now and my PCC times are something less than staller but dad man's suits have no pockets so what the hell...its only money....
I will be up your way next spring so we will have to get together for a beer.
Take Care
Bob
That plug need to be removed because of the gas key sitting atop the bolt.
The top charger is definitely the easiest method when using this design. But the side charger with the plug is also an option. I’ve heard of people having good luck using the side charger on the left side because of the threads on the charger. Basically every time you charge it your tightening the charger. That said people have not had such luck running it on the right side. (Loosening every time it’s charged and falling off in some cases)
If you check out bats88 on you tube he’s done a pretty good honest review of this platform.
The top charger is definitely the easiest method when using this design. But the side charger with the plug is also an option. I’ve heard of people having good luck using the side charger on the left side because of the threads on the charger. Basically every time you charge it your tightening the charger. That said people have not had such luck running it on the right side. (Loosening every time it’s charged and falling off in some cases)
If you check out bats88 on you tube he’s done a pretty good honest review of this platform.
Well if that is the case I'll leave well enough alone. I'll leave the top charging handle in and use the left side charging hadle in and use it to charge the gun. The Lockhart top
charging handle freely releases when I use the side charging handle due to the clips it uses to retain it.
Thanks John for the explanation.
Take Care
Bob
charging handle freely releases when I use the side charging handle due to the clips it uses to retain it.
Thanks John for the explanation.
Take Care
Bob
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My friend John T whomposts here has one and his sings. I'm. Looking as well, but for a spring purchase. Given AR's r8ght now are not available the Raven 223 is a very good option. Just remember Trudeau lurks ....but then why should we care.
My Raven 9 is sweet. albeit mag and bullet picky. The latter is not a problem now as banked 5500 124 gr BDX bullets last week.l.
Take Care
Bob
Yes its been 2 weeks so far with no shipping , doubt it will be shipped next week with the holidays but at least i did hear back from mr. lockhart that they are working on it as fast as they can. Its all good but wow ordering from actual retailers is alot more pleasant
