M-14 Blasphemy?

300Spartans

300Spartans

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
280   0   0
Location
Canada of course
I'm not a subscriber to "SWAT Magazine", but the other night I was out with the wife for dinner and stopped at a magazine shop so she could find a photography magazine for herself. Of course, I checked out the gun rags on the stand and was piqued by the title headline on the April issue of SWAT: "Myth of the M14 Rifle". I thumbed through to the article which was entitled, "Slaying the Sacred Cow", by Mike Jones.

Mike Jones isn't an author I am familiar with (pardon my ignorance), but the general synopsis of the article is that the M14 is an outdated relic that should be put back into government storage. It seemed too, that the author's opinion was that even the modern updates for the rifle, such as mounts and stock chassis are, from what I read, frivolous items for something completely obsolete. The whole article was one criticism after another, with descriptions such as "bizarre and archaic" and the use of the modernized rifle as being "the same as showing up wearing a cowboy hat and pink boots"! Lol! There was even one caption under a pic in the article which read, "True niche role for the M14" and showed ship-to-ship line launching as if that's all the rifle is good for. No kidding. :(

I agreed with many of the other points of the author, especially the rehash of the 5.56/7.62 debate with the former as superior for modern armies, the better ergonomics of the Stoner and SCAR systems, and so forth. Also, the author is quick to mention that he has a rack of M14 rifles himself and that the rifles do hold appeal for hunting, target and general sport. Still though, I thought the article was negatively gratuitous given the overall following these rifles have and the military history and usage behind them. Calling it the Krag-Jorgensen of the 20th-century probably is an insult to many in the M14 lovers' community, especially given the warm fondness that our American friends have for one of their most classical rifles.

Has anyone else read this article and what are your thoughts? To me, it seems as though SWAT Magazine is trying to stimulate some sales by creating a controversy amongst readers.
 
I agree.... there must be no news to report so let's stir the pot and remind all the M1A / M14 lovers that this platform is no good anymore. But all things being said, they were right that competition and hunting opportunities for the M14 are around us and that's all most of us need this rifle/platform for. Especially for the price that we Canuckistanis pay for them. I ain't complaining. :D

I'll be the first to admit and many of you come to our Service Rifle matches; I compete with an Armalite 16" middy... nothing fancy, but I get the odd medal and 500 badge with it. My M14 is for fun , tweaking , and teaching! Oh yeah, the SWAT magazine forgot to mention: fondling while watching Band of Brothers, while listening to the title song, "Requiem for a Soldier".

Reality is/was, Jean Cantius Garand never intended or visualized ANPAQ 15 lasers or weapon lights on his creation. The M14 platform was never designed for these purposes, kinda like making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Even the scope mounting system was an afterthought for night vision... that's sourced in Blake Stevens' book M14 to M21 (or something like that).

No matter what your love or opinion of the M14 platform, there's no denying that this platform can still put down a great deal of lead accurately and quickly in the right (read: trained) hands. I've seen that over and over again in my 25 - 30 years of competition. :D

:cheers:

Barney
 
During Desert Storm it became evident that a long range .30 cal rifle was needed. Indeed any rifle that would function in that desert environment (very fine grain sand) without seizing was needed. Believe it or not M14's were deployed, completely dry (no lubrication whatsoever) and functioned flawlessly!
And the Americans have every 14 they can get their hands on deployed in Iraq and Afghan right now. The Smith Ent built CH rifles can do whatever the M110 can and then some.
 
I supose it counterbalances the rampant "drool, the M 14 is the ultimate battle rifle, throw away the M 16, 7.62 is king" article that is almost mandatory in all those mags. Both have their use, and as a general issue weapon, the M 14 isn't ideal, and was inferior to both the G3 and FAL. I was picked due to the "made in america" politics of the time. I love the M 14 platform, its a lot of fun to shoot, but really, its a warmed up Garand. (not that THAT is an insult, I prefer the Garand anyways:D If they want to field a DM rifle in 7.62, stick with the AR platform for comonality and it will out shoot any M 14 made that is sustainable in a battlefield enviorment without armorer support. (which the M21 never was)
 
I think he has a good point but I think it stems from too many people trying to turn a chicken into a duck.

The M14 is not a high precision F-class platform and it most likely isn't the lightest or most ergonomic modern combat rifle... so why try to make it that? The design doesn't lend it's self to being highly accurate without a whole bunch of screwing around... ask hungry about that.

I love the M14 for what it is... a reliable combat rifle with a lot of history which is great for dropping deer and shooting milk jugs. Mine is sitting in my closet in a USGI stock and still has the original open sights.
 
well I personally don't own an M14 (yet), but all the times I've fired my buddies I cant see anything wrong with it. It's rugged and can take a beating, aside from the fact that its a 7.62x51mm in semi auto. You cant improve on perfection!!!
 
The only downside to using the M14 in battle is the overall length and the amount of ammunition that can be comfortably carried (although I have to admit that the full auto function was disabled on my issued M14)

Given the same amount of real estate on a battle vest, I managed to squeeze 420 rds. of 5.56mm into the same space that I used to carry 180 rds. 7.62mm.
 
I like what you guys said about the DMR Role... issue an SR25 or something along the AR10 lines because the AR family WAS designed and mfge'd for all the accessories today's modern battlefield requires (good , bad, or indifferent). The AR based platforms have highly evolved themselves to very close to perfect... I ain't saying perfect (so don't jump on me...).

The bottom line is : The M14's that we Canucks buy for $ 400ish is a fantastic buy and value, so let's enjoy the addiction while we still can... or else yer #### will fall off... :runaway:

Barney
 
^^^^^^points to ponder folks

the m14 is a great buy for a battle rifle to tweak and play with, and has alot of after market support , that you can take on a hunt ta boot

beside if we were allow how many would be buying FNs lol?


on a modern battle field i would have to say the ar10 platform (in my uninformed pseudo pro opionion) would be much preferred to a "14"

everybody has an opinion leave it at that

I buy a firearm for many reasons but going to war is not one of them :D if i did it would be pulse rifles and battle armour :D and my star trek tricorder (is there anything those things can't do)
 
Can we please refer to the Norchincos and Polytechs as M1.4's or M1/4's. I can't stand the way the chinese grab others design's, music and movies and copy and sell the stuff as their own. It's a matter of principle.

Would you buy a Chinese made Honda at Canadian tire? I won't and I don't own an SKS or any of this other junk. The entire battle rifle section of this site is about the cheap clones.

I have an FN, I'd take the TRW M14 I owned or the Springfield M1A I have over it anyday.
 
Seafury.....really...???
I hope you are just saying to stir the pot and see what kind of reaction you get....
 
Seafury said:
Can we please refer to the Norchincos and Polytechs as M1.4's or M1/4's. I can't stand the way the chinese grab others design's, music and movies and copy and sell the stuff as their own. It's a matter of principle.
Click to expand...

So on that note, would you also only buy an Armalite brand Ar-15 as a matter of principle. :rolleyes:
 
If your M14 (Chinese, American, whatever) works for you, why do you give a rats ass about what some writer in "SWAT" magazine thinks? He probably plays airsoft, anyway:p
 
I think Mike Jones' issue with the M14 is becuase he's writing from a SWAT perspective, and not a military perspective (I'm assuming based on the title of the magazine).
SWAT has no use for a .30 cal outside of a sniper role. 30 cal is too big, too loud, too heavy, and too much potential for overpenetration in an urban policing scenario.
Police departments are scared of the reprocussions of a 5.56 going beyond its intended target, so the ballistics of the .30 will make them sh-t their pants.
As long as there are still forces overseas, or some other 3rd world cesspool in need of international policing, the M14 will live-on just fine.
 
Let's celebrate the wisdom of the gun writer to speak the truth to the popular tide. Throughout the long history of US military arms, there has been a tendency to accept whatever new rifle/pistol is chosen for the troops and immediately begin a nostalgia campaign to keep the old one.

The Beretta 9mm has been the issue sidearm since 1985. That's 25 years ago. But how many gun writers and lobbyists (virtually all are retired military or stand-up one-handed bullseye shooters) have been beating the drum for the M1911 since then? The same was true for the M1 Garand and Carbine, the BAR and the M14. The M16 family has been issue for nearly twice that long, and look at how much ink is spilled and electrons flowed over the rifle it very effectively replaced.
 
Seafury said:
Can we please refer to the Norchincos and Polytechs as M1.4's or M1/4's. I can't stand the way the chinese grab others design's, music and movies and copy and sell the stuff as their own. It's a matter of principle.

Would you buy a Chinese made Honda at Canadian tire? I won't and I don't own an SKS or any of this other junk. The entire battle rifle section of this site is about the cheap clones.

I have an FN, I'd take the TRW M14 I owned or the Springfield M1A I have over it anyday.
Click to expand...

So where was your DVD player made?
 
Yes I would

Ar180shooter said:
So on that note, would you also only buy an Armalite brand Ar-15 as a matter of principle. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I have 3 Armalites. Would I own other AR 15 platforms? Certainly, had a Colt and the custom AR's achieve a level of perfection that GI grade rifles do not. They also cost twice as much or more. I do not shoot the AR's in a manner where 1/2 MOA is required. For me that's bolt gun territory.

Look guys shoot what you want but calling the Norinco something it isn't grates on me. That's why I looked in on the post "M14 blasphemy", I thought someone else was finally going to say what I was thinking.

Can some guys make these guns shoot well for a relative bargain? Sure but that changes nothing. You can make a Hyundai fast (crank up the nitrous and call a tow truck) but it's still a Hyundai not a Corvette.

I have to think that most feel the same given the number of posts I see about these rifles. Its like you want someone to tell you all they are OK. I'm sure they function fine, but don't call it an M14, it isn't one. I have no problem with two guys living together and sharing pensions and benefits but don't call it marriage.

As a final point I wonder how many Norincos show up at the Camp Perry matches? For that manner there are few FN's and no HK's that I've ever been aware of.

Call them C14's
 
The usgi M14 is best suited for open country and the DMR role. It will reach out there, it is accurate, it will punch trough walls, it is very reliable, and in EBR trim can carry NVD's, designators and whatever else.
The M110 is still direct gas impingement:rolleyes: and I would very much like to see it go head to head with a SEI M14 in a torture test. I liked the Sage EBR setup just fine for attaching accessories back when I had one.

The following quote is from a US site discussing this very topic.

"I just returned from afghanistan in december and we I carried for the entire deployment an m14 ebr, why did the army choose it 1. it's already in the system 2. all the ones we had shot .6 moa or lower with M118 LR thats just as accurate as the m110 i know I have shot both. The only issue is that the officers in our battalion are idiots who thought that shooting m118LR out of the m14 would destroy the barrel in 200 rounds or less so we had 2 choices for ammo either delink m80 ball for the M240B and walk around with an over sized M4 or buy our own match grade wich is what I did and 1200 rounds later my m14 still shot .53 MOA @ 100M"

Sounds like it is getting the job done to me.

As for the M110.....

As posted by Different:
Apparently, the U. S. Army is still interested in evaluating a precision 7.62 mm NATO platform.
The M110 was fielded last year but it seems some further review of the matter is being conducted.
The M110 shot MOA at 1000 yards at Fort Benning. The feedback from troops in the sandbox is that
the M110 isn't always consistent and the sand over there affects its operation.
The SEI demonstration M21A5/C-IED was tested on 03/28/08. Using M118LR ammunition at 100 yards,
the SEI demonstration M21A5/C-IED printed a 3/4 " five shot group. At 1000 yards, the shot group was
less than 10 " using M118LR ammunition.
The M110 is the Army version of the SR-25. The Mk 11 is the Navy version of the SR-25.

SWAT magazine = wankers;)
 
Well, the Chinese have been marketing numerous guns, and not just their "M-14", based on someone else's design: there are 1911 clones, Remington 870 clones, Sig, Browning and CZ clones, and AR15 type rifles. I agree with you, Seafury, in that they are not the genuine article. However, I think it's common practice in the Canadian service rifle and hunting communities now to refer to the Norinco M-14S or M305 as an "M-14". It might not be the right thing to do, but most guys do call them that and the fact that many USGI and aftermarket parts interface with these clone rifles lends to the practice of referring to them as M-14. Of course, the Springfield M1A can also be considered a clone of the actual M-14.

Although the M-14 itself is approaching full obsolescence in military operations today, the civilian owners of M-14 clones can thank the U.S. government for spending all that research and development money on the creation of an excellent and functional rifle design for us. I really don't care who makes the clone, I like the design and concept of the rifle itself. If a Norinco part is weak or needs upgrading, I can get an American or Canadian aftermarket part to replace it and beef things up. I use my rifle on the range and sometimes for hunting, and I would never part with my clone. It's a hybrid of Chinese and U.S. parts and works very well. Just ask those two black bears.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom