M+M M10x FRT 153447

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Brian46 said:
the guys doing the preorder should have secured the rifles before offering them for sale, it is obvious by M+M's statements that the rifles being sold were not coming from them directly and the retailer is certainly not explaining the situation
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As I stated, read the Wanstalls thread. It looks like they had a set amount of rifles secured.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-M-M-Industries-M10X-Official-PRE-ORDER/page2

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...-M-M-Industries-M10X-Official-PRE-ORDER/page6

After reading it doesn't look like Wanstalls was trying to bate. Something changed. Now if the rifles are coming from a third party (no one has stated otherwise), then all is still doable. Unless, M+M screwed that deal. If coming from M+M and they canceled due to pricing then it's totally shady. I have no interest in Wanstalls so don't really care who's fault but I am on the preorder. I just have a hard time believing that a Canadian business would #### themselves like this knowing that you can't offer #### without securing it first. This is Canadian Firearms Business 101.
 
fhg1893 said:
That's a fair cop.

Still. There is an as yet, un-met demand for decent non-AK variant semi-autos in 7.62x39.
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I think the 858 and vz 58 would fall into that category no? If none of us had ever seen one before and they were just being released it would be and even more massive uproar than these!
 
Craig0ry said:
I think the 858 and vz 58 would fall into that category no? If none of us had ever seen one before and they were just being released it would be and even more massive uproar than these!
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They would, but I think the included optics rail and easy disassembly on the M10X are major selling features for the Canadian market...
 
fhg1893 said:
They would, but I think the included optics rail and easy disassembly on the M10X are major selling features for the Canadian market...
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Oh I Agree! I was the only 1 out of 3 of my friends that's didn't do the pre order, I really love the looks of this rifle, but if it comes out it was M+M who did the funny business I won't be getting one, Wanstalls has treated me good in the past, which is More than I can say for Can-am
 
The reason that no one is making any statements is because the 3 main players in this mess is trying to make their story straight.

M&M wants to jack the price but can't just come out and say "because we can" and they also need to satisfy the guys who bought preorders at $1450 and don't want to piss off the rest of the market.

They need to come up with a good enough story so eveyone involed is happy. Here are 2 senerios of how it might play out.

Story senerio 1
1. M&M comes out and say the preorders didn't directly come from the manufacture and it was a US reseller who sold the "limited" inventory to the Canadian retailer who took the preorder.
2. The preorder dealer comes out and say exactly the same to match the above statement and fulfill the preorders.
3. M&M comes out with a CAD MSRP and from that ponint on it is business as usual for all party involved.

Story Senerio 2
1. The preorder dealer announce it was A big "miscommunication" in which the price they quoted were incorrect and the preorder dealer comes out apologize to the customers but says he will still honour the preorder price because he is upstanding ( of course this is not real loss and the initial quote from M&M will stand under the table)
2. M&M comes out with a CAD MSRP and from that ponint on it is business as usual for all party involved.

After M&M can care less of a few hundred rifles selling below Canadian MSRP...they know we dont have many choices and jacking it a few hundred dollars wont make a difference...just like NEA/BCL did with the 102. People will enevtually cave in and pay for it.
 
Deathrawt said:
This whole thing is turning into another T2 garand ****show
Nothing but arguing, pissing/whining. Im tempted to call Wanstalls and cancel my preorder.
I could care less if they honor the presale agreement or not at this point
I have a T81 on the way, as far as I'm concerned M+M can go pound sand
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Craig0ry said:
Oh I Agree! I was the only 1 out of 3 of my friends that's didn't do the pre order, I really love the looks of this rifle, but if it comes out it was M+M who did the funny business I won't be getting one, Wanstalls has treated me good in the past, which is More than I can say for Can-am
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Who remembers this... "But will they have chrome-lined bores?"

I believe what Can-am said about M+M, and pleasing their investors. Something about that story, about the investors makes this whole thing make sense. M+M is trying to play the whole thing off as just a "miscommunication," but right now... I think the "safe money" is on a landed price of I think... $500-$1000 more than what Wanstall's wants to charge. Now maybe things have changed, I won't say that I've parsed every last jot and tittle of this fiasco, I'm just telling you where I'm at.

I also believe that Wantsall's put up a price that was within the ballpark of where they thought it should be. They didn't just make things up! Now maybe they made their own calculations and took a best-guess at it, or maybe the wholesale price was suggested to them in private e-mails. Or that was... until someone said, "no! We're supposed to mark these up by 100% so that we can subsidize the US Market."

See, in America this rifle doesn't make a lot of sense, because, the AK-47 already exists, and it's a lot cheaper, and likewise with AR-15's in 7.62x39mm. So, in order to compete, the manufacture who wants to sell to Americans needs to make sure that the price is within a few percentage points of an AK-47, or an AR feeding the same round. So, what do? Well, what you CAN do is drastically mark-up an under-supplied foreign market to subsidize your domestic sales, which allows you to be competitive.

Thing is, if Can-Am has read the tea-leaves properly, they should leave M+M twisting in the wind. Nobody should buy such overpriced guns, nobody.

I'm still waiting on that "retraction" from Wanstall's... I think that'll more than anything tell me who's been misleading whom.

I do stand to be corrected. I'm just calling it as I see it.
 
M&M has made a pretty horrible first impression. I think if they come up with a msrp close to 1450 people will still buy. What's the price increase you guys would tolerate? I think under 1600 and I'll likely still be in.

I don't see why people are making such a big deal about who submitted the sample. They didn't do a whole lot they bought a m10x for likely 1000 usd or maybe even got one for free and submitted to the RCMP for a frt. I could go buy a firearm and submit it and see what happens...
 
fluidmax said:
After M&M can care less of a few hundred rifles selling below Canadian MSRP...they know we dont have many choices and jacking it a few hundred dollars wont make a difference...just like NEA/BCL did with the 102. People will enevtually cave in and pay for it.
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A few hundred sure. The rumour is that it's about $1-1.5K.

If that is the case then nobody should buy it. Nobody. If you do, then you just encourage every American company to behave in such a predatory fashion.

Some time this week we'll see an MSRP eh? Sounds like M+M needs to ask their bosses what they'll accept as an MSRP... Otherwise, they'd be able to give a rough estimate.
 
Dr. Hunter said:
M&M has made a pretty horrible first impression. I think if they come up with a msrp close to 1450 people will still buy. What's the price increase you guys would tolerate? I think under 1600 and I'll likely still be in.

I don't see why people are making such a big deal about who submitted the sample. They didn't do a whole lot they bought a m10x for likely 1000 usd or maybe even got one for free and submitted to the RCMP for a frt. I could go buy a firearm and submit it and see what happens...
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About $1600-$1700, I think they're really pushing it, but the market will bear it. Any more than that, and we should turn our backs.

Sooner or later, KEL-TEC is going to do the RDB in 7.62x39. KEL-TEC has a lot of experience with the Canadian market, and from what I can see, those imports have in the past, been fairly priced. Though lately...

And then... Since I learned how to tune M305's at a hungry clinic, I can get an M305A, which is probably just as reliable as an AK, feeds off AK magazines, can be scoped for ~$100, and throw in a few thousand rounds of 7.62x39mm, all for about the same price as an M10x. Yeah, I like the rifle, want two of 'em, but if push comes to shove, I'm a pragmatist, not a sucker.
 
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Dr. Hunter said:
What's the price increase you guys would tolerate? I think under 1600 and I'll likely still be iin...
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fhg1893 said:
About $1600-$1700, I think they're really pushing it, but the market will bear it. Any more than that, and we should turn our backs.
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Why do people write this type or post? What the purpose? Why do u need to known this? You can't make up your own decisions on how much to pay for certain stuff ?
 
Speculations and more speculations. I think someone got a strong case of "Gold Fever". Both Wantstall and Canada Ammo were always good for me. I have a feeling it is not them. There may be 3red party already involved that promised someone "Mountains of Gold"
 
I'm in at $1450. Anything else is just gouging. Come on do you all think they didn't have a price. All businesses know what their product costs and what margins they have. Why the wait? Likely coming up with a credible story to not sour the market.
 
fluidmax said:
Why do people write this type or post? What the purpose? Why do u need to known this? You can't make up your own decisions on how much to pay for certain stuff ?
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It's because if you buy it anyway, they'll know they can fleece you.

And then, next time someone wants to bring in a fancy NR boomstick in a popular caliber, it'll be marked up $1000 over US MSRP out the gate. If you want to pay more than you have to, fill your boots, but there are much better deals, and better guns to be had at the prices they're demanding.
 
I already said what I felt it was worth and was just wondering how others felt. The companies involved are reading these boards and I'm sure they would like to know what potential buyers are willing to pay. Your post on the other hand added nothing.
 
skooch said:
I'm in at $1450. Anything else is just gouging. Come on do you all think they didn't have a price. All businesses know what their product costs and what margins they have. Why the wait? Likely coming up with a credible story to not sour the market.
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Oh yeah. They had some kind of tentative agreement. Then their investors told them to get more money.

This is why I gave a number I thought reasonable.
 
Deathrawt said:
I'll bet that TI is just loving this and is frantically trying to get those T81s off that container ship and ready for sale
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If the T81 had a good way to mount optics, I'd have bought two. And given the foot-dragging, I'd probably have come out ahead of Canadian M10X buyers I'm sorry to say.
 
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