M&P 9mm - Solution is being offered by S&W

I have yet to have one stoppage with my m&p 9. Its an awsome pistol, mind you i never had warrenty isssues neither. With all American products you are basically on your own for repair work. Its just too much aggravation. I fix all my ####. One man, one kit.
 
Stevo said:
One of our shooters sent her M&P off for warranty work with the FTE problem. It was more messed up when it came back. So back it went. The warranty depot in Canada is incompetent, IMO.

For that reason only, I'd never buy an M&P or any other new Smith and Wesson.
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Which of the two depots did it go to?
 
I'm with Greentips. my first handgun was a M&P 9mm. FTE on just about every mag. tried different ammo, grip, cleaned and oiled to death. tried a guys .40 M&P at the range and it worked exellent. really liked the feel of the M&P but finally traded it off on a STI spartan. now a converted 1911 guy.
 
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greentips said:
To respond to GIGGIDY:
First of all, I asked S&W rep 3 times on the phone clearly to confirm that this is their policy. I also indicated that if this is the official position of S&W that I can disclose on the internet. ( I did not say I run CGN though) The S&W rep did not say no. There is customer Service QC recording to back me up on that.

I am not a saint – and is my sticky tasteless? Probably! Am I trying to run the crusade to save the world – NO! In all honestly, all the CGN dealers carry M&P, and they probably want a piece of me now, but the morbidity of the warranty system needs to be talked about.

But you know what it is even more tasteless about this whole deal? Read this!

3 -Invoices submitted to S&W from the depot for repairing:
For each invoice of repair:
1 hour of gunsmithing = 45 dollars and up (if they only charge one hour….)
150 rounds of factory ammo for testing = 60 dollars
Shipping = 25 dollars

Each repair costs 130 dollars

There were 3 repairs already = 390 dollars of billing

Repair center claimed to have replace extractor and barrel = at least 150 dollars

Total billing to S&W = 550 dollars!!!!

Shipping expended on my part by DHL = 37 per repair

3 repairs = 111 dollars

Testing ammo, gas, packaging and time spent on getting ATT – you can imagine.

The total tangible readily measurable cost expended on this pistol: 661 dollars

Hidden costs – gas, packaging, my time, S&W rep’s time, invoice process time……..


You see – the depot is making some good billings here. S&W spent over 550 dollars on this pistol but it doesn’t have to deal with any admin burden. And the consumer lost 100 dollars on shipping, time and enjoyment of his investment.

Basically, it is the same old American automobile industry way of thinking. The cost of recall vs the cost of lawsuit – and the cost of information containment. Even though they have spent over 550 dollars, spread it over 100 pistols (1% failure rate), it is still cheap as a way of self insurance. From corporate perspective, this sounds like a good deal. From the consumer perspective, we are being sold short. You will always have 99 happy customers, but the 1 in 100 is getting severely screwed in this system.

If you look at how this works – the chance that 1 in 100 customers will complain is probably 50/50. The chance that the one who complains and had his product fixed in the first try is probably another 75%. The 25% of so customer, like myself, is probably insignificant. For a company that makes 50,000 pistols a year, that’s like 125 severe complains in a year – which accounted for 10 severe complaints a month.

You see, spending 600 bucks on a pistol is still an ok deal from S&W perspective, that’s about 100,000 a year. Think of the cost of adding people on QC and slowing down the production rate. You use sales volume to cover up the cost of fixing defects. And part of the strategy of high sales volume is low price.

Now, here is the kicker. I have no doubt in my mind they cost this out already. However, instead of giving ME, the consumer, a new pistol that costs them maybe around 100 dollars to make, they choose to let the depot bill them over 550 dollars. Of course, this makes the warranty depot happy because it generates billing opportunity there at the expense of the consumer and S&W . The only loser is the consumer. If S&W act quickly and replace the entire pistol after the first repair attempt, it would have costs them 300 dollars instead of 550! Instead, the “repair” budget is channeled to the report depot versus satisfying the customers. If you look at the objective of S&W and the bias of the repair center, you can get a picture why this is going nowhere. I am not saying the repair center is unethical or intentionally not fixing it – but the repair center could take an incremental approach – fixing one or trying one small thing at a time to create potential follow ups , instead of a major overhaul that costs more in the first try and guarantee a permanent fix.

In conclusion, if you are one of the 99 happy customers, more power to you. On the other hand, if you are the 1 in 100, you are part of the “cost” in accordance to their business plan. And they have budgeted to take care of you. Right now, the system is not working because the budget was channeled to the repair depot instead of taking care of me, the consumer. The repair center had skimmed off MY budget, in fact, actually using my shipping money to create billing opportunities, and S&W doesn’t care because they’ve spent the money already, irregardless what it does. The system is win-win for repair center, neutral for S&W and a net-loss to consumers.
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Thanks for sharing all this Greentips. It would be great if we could get all the members to report their dealings with the other manufacturers. Would be nice to know this since most of us already know which guns perform good at range but much less of us know which ones will be serviced adequately. These results would make a great sticky.

Cheers!
 
It's sad that S&W didn't at least say that they would look into the issue. BUt from reading through the 7 pages of this thread it sounds like this issue is at least as much about the repair depot that was used. Not only Greentips frustrations but I'm seeing multiple reports of other botchups as well. Sounds like it's time to take a deep breath and let the Ontario depot have a shot at this gun's problem since everyone that dealt with them sounds happy.
 
I'm disappointed in the lack of service in Canada in regards to warranty issues, it's outrageous that greentips had to endure such a lengthy battle to try and get some simple warranty coverage and the problem still isn't fixed, brutal I say!

I have an M&P in .40.....it doesn't like truncated bullets, tried different seating depths and different degrees of crimp, all to no avail, still would get a round #### eyed into the chamber from the mag, mostly the first round, sometimes the 2nd or third. Factory ammo, not a glitch...... I switched to Montana Gold, almost a round nose, much better performance hardly have a jam now....but it still sits in the back of my mind that it jammed so much, so I still shoot IPSC with my Glock 24 or 17L, they eat anything.... :)
 
I have 2 M&P9s, one bought the fall of 2006 and one bought the fall of 2007.

The first one has ~ 16,000 rounds through it and I can count the total number of malfunctions on two hands.

The second one (my son shoots) has about 2,200 rounds through it. For the first 1,200 rounds it had an FTE just about every mag. The case jammed in the chamber. Very frustrating for a new shooter ... but you should see him clear a malfunction now!

I called S&W and asked to talk to someone that knew about the M&P9. I ended up talking to a very knowlegable fellow and I asked him to send me a new extractor. He told me he could virtually guarantee that a new extractor would not fix the problem and that S&W had changed their manufacturing process for the barrel. This new process results in an identical barrel where the rifling is, but a much rougher surface in the chamber. This rough surface can prevent the case from extracting properly. He suggested using a wooden dowel and either steel wool or fine emery cloth and give the chamber a good polish.

I went to work on the chamber with a dremel tool, felt and polishing compound. Voila! You can count the number of FTEs in the last 1,000 rounds on one hand.
 
I think GT is totally justified in his post on the main page. It is after all, HIS forum. Big companies have to be called out on stuff like this as it is completely unacceptable. You don't neglect your customers, who work hard for the money to pay for you product, once you have their money. It is both S&W and the Canadian distributor's fault. How hard would it be for S&W after hearing this story, to say, I don't know, pickup the phone maybe??, call their distributor in Canada, and tell them to send him a new pistol?

I remember a while back when I contacted the company I bought my Glock from regarding the dust cover on my G17 being curved upwards slightly. The next day I had an email from the Canadian Glock rep I think it was, saying that this was normal (which I have since discovered is 100% true), but that if I was not 100% satisfied with my gun, he would gladly replace it with a brand new one. Within 2 weeks of shipping it back, I had a brand new Glock, and that is including the time for the restricted transfer.

That is customer service. What GT got from S&W is a joke. I would feel the same way he does.
 
DANCESWITHEMPTIES said:
I think your best course of action would be to take the hit one more time & try the depot in Ontario. Let S&W and both repair depots know who you are and of the three ring circus your going to make out of this whole experience if the problem isn't corrected this time to your satisfaction! (ie. maybe trade it in for a camera?)
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I disagree. S&W should fix it properly for any consumer, not just someone in a position to make a stink about it.

I also disagree with the guys saying basically that its a great pistol so Greentips should have kept quiet about it. S&W may make a great pistol but if they don't do right when there is a problem then they are not a good company. I think the parallel with the American auto industry is a good one.
 
no problem with mine, I'm even forcing it to FTF - FTE to practive a bit !
No problems either with the customer service, emailed only once for how bad I missed their "bonus" mag program in spring... they sent me 2 additional mags for free !!!:dancingbanana:
 
I have that through my Tanfoglio and more and never had a problem. Glocks do have issues, they aren't on their 3rd Generation because they got it right the first time. As you know Steve the .40 cals has a habit of going kaboom with out of battery firings. Police departments carry and have trained armourers for their Glocks for a reason.

The issue here isn't about quality of product it is about how American companies deals with Canadian Warranty issues. Given the laws relating to cross border shipment of firearms, none of which are controlled by S&W a satisfactory solve is not easy.

In this case S&W has dropped the ball or at least their Canadian Service rep has.

Not at all sure Greentips hasn't crossed the line with his sticky here or his warning but that is his issue and his way of addressing his problem. Would not be the way I would have done it and might not be yours. What is done is done, however and I hope it results in his pistol being fixed or replaced.

S&W isn't likely going to miss the loss of a few sales up here in Canada from any bad publicity they get here. My hope is they don't get to the point where they don't think they can justify retail sales in Canada or the problems associated with them. We all lose then.

You will be back paying $800+ for your Glocks again.

Take Care

Bob
 
762shooter said:
I disagree. S&W should fix it properly for any consumer, not just someone in a position to make a stink about it.

I also disagree with the guys saying basically that its a great pistol so Greentips should have kept quiet about it. S&W may make a great pistol but if they don't do right when there is a problem then they are not a good company. I think the parallel with the American auto industry is a good one.
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If you are referring to me, I must again state that I agree this is a crappy deal and he's got a lemon with poor Customer service. My issue is was two identical posts about it, one on the home page and one on the pistol section. If you look at the homepage now Greetips edited his post and just put a link to this thread, which suits me just fine and I have no issues with it.

Cheers,

Giggidy
 
cbabes said:
Thanks for sharing all this Greentips. It would be great if we could get all the members to report their dealings with the other manufacturers. Would be nice to know this since most of us already know which guns perform good at range but much less of us know which ones will be serviced adequately. These results would make a great sticky.

Cheers!
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I had a similar issue with glock, took 3 months for them to tell me there was nothing they could do (they called it "worn out") took another 2 months to get it back from them. I guess under 500rnds and 6 months old is all it takes for a new generation G20 to be "worn out"???
 
DANCESWITHEMPTIES said:
but I haven't seen anyother site as well put together as this one
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You don't get around the net much, huh?:p

Anyways, my M&P has a couple of thousand rounds through it and has never missed a beat...ever.

Blasting S&W with a sticky on the front page is a little over the top IMHO.
 
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