i ve seen and used 460 wea in africa but never on smaller game like wild boar but why not?
"magnumitis"
- Thread starter adamthebad
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i ve seen and used 460 wea in africa but never on smaller game like wild boar but why not?
Yes. I too think that a large majority of magnum bashing is done by people who have shot very little, if any, game with one. I agree that lots can be done with a .270, but the decisiveness of a .300 Mag in the same situations cannot be denied once you've seen it a few times. And anyone can learn to shoot the .300 - .338 level of magnums if they want to.
I agree. 300WM, or even 338WM are just not that bad with a decent recoil pad and proper LOP. Technique is different than with very gentle recoilers. Most hunters have had very little actual shooting instruction. It’s not as easy to teach yourself.
I don’t, but if I have a flinch from previous experiences it still shows up. Pain from shot #1 sure makes shot #2 tougher though. Scoped myself pretty hard once.
Agree with that too.
People always talk about not noticing recoil when shooting at game, but most hunters fall back to their training level (or even lower) when shooting at game, and any faults you have practiced, like flinching, will manifest themselves whether you notice it or not (scope brow gets noticed for sure as proof of bad technique). I don't depend on not noticing recoil on game; I practice lots with heavy recoiling rifles. Muscle memory is a pretty good thing, but it will remember bad habits too, so you need to teach it properly if you want to depend on it when shooting at game. As Ardent pointed out, lots of people shoot guns like the .300's and .338's very well.
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- Southern Vancouver Island
Lots of folk notice recoil when hunting, but their brains tend to shut off that bit as they are more focused on doing the deed at the shot. Plenty of pre-hunt practice with ones preferred gun & load helps bigtime for folks using heavy booters.
I never notice the recoil or hear the report. I am also guilty of this magnumitis thing as I have a 22 mag.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The answer comes down to bullet construction and velocity. Expanding bullets intended for use on heavy, thick skinned game, have thick jackets, even though they are intended to upset. A reality of terminal ballistics is that the higher the impact velocity and the greater the density of the target is, the faster the bullet upsets. So thick jackets are used in the bullets intended for heavy game that are typically loaded for the rounds you mention; the thick jackets slow the bullet's expansion even at high velocity, close range impacts on dense targets. This ensures deep penetration, even if its at the expense of wound diameter, which is less important on big and often dangerous African and Asiatic game.
Lets consider two extremes, a 55 gr .22-250 load and the traditional 405 gr .45/70 load. Both loads produce about 1700 ft-lbs of kinetic energy, and we'll assume that, for the purposes of discussion, the bullet impact of each generates the that amount of energy on the target. Kinetic energy is a measure of work, and provides a useful comparison in this example. The .22-250 bullet impacts at very high velocity expands rapidly, and sheds weight, both act to limit penetration, and create a very wide, though shallow, wound channel. The .45-70 bullet's impact velocity is only about a third of the .22-250's, and the bullet weighs seven times more, but it barely changes shape as it penetrates, so it sheds velocity at a much slower rate. If the target was large enough, you would see the .45/70's wound channel would be similar in volume to the .22-250's, but instead of being wide and shallow, its narrow and deep.
So to answer your question, a bullet fired from a .300 Winchester creates a wider, shallower wound than the big bores you mention. Despite the fact that the big bore's respective velocities are high for caliber, their bullet's typically have thick jackets intended to impede expansion, so expansion occurs slower, since penetration is more desirable on the heavy game they are intended for. If we consider the .375 H&H, its an ideal general purpose rifle for big game hunting anywhere in the world, having the penetration to kill the largest game, high velocity that produces a flat trajectory, but the thick jacketed bullets led to the often repeated quote, "You can eat right up to the bullet hole!" On the other hand, a .300 Winchester, with its high velocity and thin jacketed bullets, with a near range bullet impact, can turn 20 pounds of meat into inedible blood shot, jellied mush with a shoulder shot.
Or in other words use big, heavy, hard and slow bullets on big, heavy, hard and slow animals.
Naturally it follows that small, light, soft and fast bullets are the ticket for small, light, soft and fast animals.
Naturally it follows that small, light, soft and fast bullets are the ticket for small, light, soft and fast animals.
The .270 has been around since around the end of the Model T Ford. With its high velocity and bullets well suited to it its been cleaning up in the game fields ever since. There's no sense saying it doesn't work because it's proven. It was a screamingly high velocity for its day, and isn't a slouch in that department today.
The 30-06 has been around even longer, and there's not much wondering if it'll work for something, once in a while. While promoted as a mild mannered cartridge today, it didn't start out that way. It was the big 30 back then, and owners could lord it over the whimpy 30-30s, 303s, and Krags. Oh sure there was .300 Mag that showed up on the other side of the ocean but there's a moon in the sky too. Chances are the 30-30 guy hadn't heard of it anyway, so you could probably bluff that part. The '06 was blessed with an abundance of bullets of all sorts and weights . They would try to lord that over the .270 guys who would yawn because they didn't need them.
When the .300s became mainstream, offering 30-06 bullets at .270 velocity you'd think that both sides would break out the good whiskey and throw a party or maybe even a parade instead of getting all whinney about it.
The 30-06 has been around even longer, and there's not much wondering if it'll work for something, once in a while. While promoted as a mild mannered cartridge today, it didn't start out that way. It was the big 30 back then, and owners could lord it over the whimpy 30-30s, 303s, and Krags. Oh sure there was .300 Mag that showed up on the other side of the ocean but there's a moon in the sky too. Chances are the 30-30 guy hadn't heard of it anyway, so you could probably bluff that part. The '06 was blessed with an abundance of bullets of all sorts and weights . They would try to lord that over the .270 guys who would yawn because they didn't need them.
When the .300s became mainstream, offering 30-06 bullets at .270 velocity you'd think that both sides would break out the good whiskey and throw a party or maybe even a parade instead of getting all whinney about it.
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I suggest the gun manufacturers depend on making ordinary people feel their perfectly fine rifle is somehow inadequate.Same goes for all sports equipment..fishing,archery,golf...The silver lining is that this puts some very good equipment on the market for those who recognize it.
A light weight 300 Win Mag isn’t something you “get used to”. Sorry. This is why the 270 is such a good cartridge. You don’t need a 300 WM to let the air out of anything in this country really. So shoot something you enjoy shooting.
People get used to African level recoil every day. That's between two light .300s or maybe 3 normal ones going off at the same time. Women and kids learn to do it. Heavy waterfowl loads kick more, then there's slug loads that are also more than a .300. Everyday folks without an "S" on their pajamas shoot that stuff up by the case. Hell, stiff loaded muzzleloaders kick more than any 300 I've ever shot, including the 6 pound some ounce .300 Weatherby ultra lightweight my kid started shooting when he was 13.
A 300 kicks about 25% more than a 30-06 more or less. Big deal. Maybe the ammo should come with a red band on the box saying 25% more like they do on toothpaste?
A 300 kicks about 25% more than a 30-06 more or less. Big deal. Maybe the ammo should come with a red band on the box saying 25% more like they do on toothpaste?
I like the red band idea. Good stuff.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
One recurring theme I see is shooters assuming their own limitations apply equally to others. I recommend .270s as the ideal mountain hunting rifle to clients booking mountain hunts, but plenty of .300 Win Kimbers and the like make the trip and work great too. Better, admittedly, by enough margin you notice it, but not enough I’d personally carry the extra weight or feel I was missing out with a .270. Weight’s more of a concern than the recoil as the .300s are generally heavier rifles in most brands. And yet plenty of .300 ultra mags show up, that are fairly light. Whatever you shoot, just shoot it often, people master far, far meaner rifles than light .300s. A 7 3/4lb .300 is pretty well the standard BC mountain rifle.
I'm having a custom 270 Win. being built at this moment. With a 27.5" barrel (straight tapered) accompanied with a 130 gr. Nosler Accubond and Reloder 16, it should be a screamer!!! However, accuracy comes first. Next autumn, watch-out Mr. Whitetail Buck. The 270 Win. has been the go-to cartridge in western North America since it's conception.....a wonderful cartridge.
I suspect that the recoil limitations of many hunters complaining about magnums is simply due to lack of opportunity to (yet) try a 'magnum' rifle that actually fit them and was comfortable to shoot. I think if they did, like myself, they would find that a mmagnum rifle really isn't a big deal at all and like buying a V8 pick up truck, why not have a little more performance than you absolutely need?
Which is why I now have my eye on something a little bigger than my 7 mag, why not a 338 or maybe even a 375? Might be fun!
"When the .300s became mainstream, offering 30-06 bullets at .270 velocity you'd think that both sides would break out the good whiskey and throw a party or maybe even a parade instead of getting all whinney about it."
Well said Dogleg! That's funny stuff
Well said Dogleg! That's funny stuff
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