Match Cancellation Notice -- EOHC

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ENSHOOTER makes a great point. The volunteers are just that, volunteers. I just hope that this thread produces dialog among the other shooters and they get motivated to help. What am I saying?? That’s how we got here in the first place. No one wanted to help!

I have to face the reality though of what I have experienced in my brief time in IPSC. There are those that contribute and there are those that just come to shoot and scoot. Oh ya, and complain about everything. I have been blessed to have meet some great RO's and wonderfully helpful shooters.

I send a big THANK YOU to all the people that contribute. I have in the past, and will continue in the future, to volunteer at our club. That way, like a person that votes, I have earned the right to make comments.
 
"I know at Nationals I was sicken by attitudes of some who thought it was wrong they had to work. If you don't want to work pay the sponsorship fee and life is good."

Actually, I have a real problem with people bribing their way out of working and then showing up fresh as a peach to shoot when everyone else has a day of humping it in the hot sun under their belts. It's an unfair advantage. Not everyone can afford to pay the sponsorship fee, and if everyone could there would still be no one to work the match. I think everyone should work, or everyone should not work. No in between. Of course if no one works there's no match, so no problem....right?
 
Maybe we can change the direction of this thread - perhaps discussing how to be a better MD? ;)

Unfortuantely, there is no MD course like a CRO or RO course, so we all have to learn as we go.

These are my guidelines for MDing - prematch. Maybe they can be a basis for an MD creed or guideline?

0. Be prepared to do it all. Then hope to find people to take the load off.
1. Always ASK volunteers to do something. Even if they're there to do it, ASK...never tell. They are always volunteers.
2. Thank them a couple of times throughout the day and at the match. Every nail they put in is one less you have to.
3. Try to match the task with the skills of the person. Both he and I will be happy with the result.
4. Never ask anyone to do anything that you wouldn't do yourself.
5. Compliment thier work. Everyone works harder when they're appreciated.
6. Be the first at the range and the last to leave. Let everyone else know you're committted to the project.
7. If I do a good job here, someone else will be inspired to do a good job at thier match and then, I'll be just a shooter (and part time RO) and reep the benefits.
8. Everything falls on the MD. If something goes wrong - anytime - it's the MD who wears it. Therefore, when you say you're going to be an MD, you'd better be ready to do everything it takes.

Additions?

Oh yeah, my comments are based on this experience; The first match that I was match director for was in 1991 and since then, I've been MD for 2 Nationals, 10+ Provincials, (all at L3 status) and at least 6 L2s every year - and I'm still learning.
 
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I think Seans comments can apply to all level of volunteer work, we always see the same people out to our regular club work parties, hardly ever any new faces. It really takes skill and determination to keep volunteers happy and coming out. Piss poor attitudes do not help things along at all.
 
I think the problem with this tread is people are not reading in between the lines of what is being said.

Let me explain myself. I have shoot at this club twice and have no plans on returning to shoot there again. As a competitor I seen bulling on the range and after the match , shooters and staff being sworn at and tantrums being thrown. With this kind of behaver why would any body com out and help with any match. Think about it for a minute how long can you treat people like #### and expect them to keep comming back. Maybe some people should take a step back and look at them selfs be for going off on other people.

Just my $0.02 let the flamming begin
 
Dr. Nick,

I think you know that I am moving that weekend, and therefore did not offer to volunteer (go figure). If I had know that the match was subject to cancellation, I may have been able to pull something off.

Sorry the match is a no-go.
 
In business over the years I have learned there is no such things as problems just solutions. Lets start coming up with suggestions to alleviate the help problem which is obviously a problem at most clubs.

May I start the ball rolling by suggesting that shooters who belong to clubs that do not allow IPSC contact one of the clubs nearest to you that do allow IPSC and give the rep your name and phone number so as he may contact you when help is needed at future matches. If he or she gets a big enough list to draw from then the rep should have an easier time getting enuff help to come out.:p
 
Its a shame another match had to be canceled. Working build teams can be very hard work and ungreatful work it seems at times. This being said I always try to find a way to help with matches. If this means spending three days in the rain resetting steel and patching so be it.

But it is nice to here thanks from the people that put on the matches. This is something that DrNick and Bartledan have always done. Hell they have even picked me up when I could not get a ride in.
 
It's like this: I wouldn't cross the street to piss on you, if there was a fire in your hair, let alone help you with an IPSC match. I feel that way, because of the way you've behaved, every single time I've met you. If you were drowning, I'd throw you an anvil. You treat people like s**t, Andy, and it makes them (quite justifiably) dislike you.
Click to expand...

When exactly was it that you and I worked together for you to formulate this opinion? Oh well looks like I struck a nerve....

Andy
 
For all you happy or less than happy people... get in the car and drive south..

theres still several level 2s left for the season and one level 3 in the GTA area.
 
I wouldn't cross the street to piss on Andy either. Something about the smell of hot steaming urine that turns me off.

I would cross the street to help the man because he has earned my respect. He has brought a lot of knowledge to the range, to the sport and is willing to share it with anyone. He has made a contribution that many cannot.

As for the anvil..... I can think of one place to put it:D

I do know that throwing blades and insults will not make a match happen. Perhaps dealing with the politics that turns volunteers off would be a good start. Perhaps showing respect that is worthy of one who volunteer's will make it happen in the future.

Or we can just sit here, and trade insults and make people like Windy happy. Is that what we want to do? Make Windy happy?

I think not
 
Whatever guys. The facts are that at the EOHC we dont have very many people coming out to work for IPSC. LOts of shoot and scoot, which is fine if we have enough workers. However most... close to all of our workers just dont want to shoulder the majority of the work anymore.
The reality is that over half of the IPSC workers at EOHC are on the club executive board. I think we can all agree thats not right.
We are planning more matches for next year. We are going to ask for helpers. If we dont get them, we will cancel the matches one by one. If people would rather drive hours down the road than swing a hammer, thats fine.

I would like to thank the people on here that said they would help. I'm sure someone will be looking you up in the spring.
 
Mike, you're missing my point. It's not a lack of volunteers, it's how those volunteers have been treated in the past. You certainly can't blame them for not wanting to go through that #### again.

I mean, the way I got treated at the last major match I was heavily involved with made me ashamed of myself for taking it. But there i was, the club president, what was I supposed to do, walk out on the match? Were I not the president, I most certainly would have walked. I mean, ####! If my mother were alive and could have seen it, she'd be ashamed of me too. No surprise that after the match I wanted ####-all to do with the guy.

I spoke up in this thread in defense of those no-show volunteers because they were being unfairly blamed.

If you want those volunteers to come back, you are going to have to wait for them to forget how ####ing terrible the last experience was. Then, you're going to have to convince them that things will be different. Convince them, with something concrete, like a couple of successful, low key matches like the one we put on a couple of months ago. No burned out workers, no lasting hatreds. Running things the same old way with the same old people isn't going to work. I think that's been proven.

It might seem like you'll never get a match off the ground without the old guard, but guess what: You aren't getting one off the ground *with* the old guard, either. Not a solution.

What Sean posted above is definately the commandments of match direction.
 
Freedom Ventures said:
0. Be prepared to do it all. Then hope to find people to take the load off.
1. Always ASK volunteers to do something. Even if they're there to do it, ASK...never tell. They are always volunteers.
2. Thank them a couple of times throughout the day and at the match. Every nail they put in is one less you have to.
3. Try to match the task with the skills of the person. Both he and I will be happy with the result.
4. Never ask anyone to do anything that you wouldn't do yourself.
5. Compliment thier work. Everyone works harder when they're appreciated.
6. Be the first at the range and the last to leave. Let everyone else know you're committted to the project.
7. If I do a good job here, someone else will be inspired to do a good job at thier match and then, I'll be just a shooter (and part time RO) and reep the benefits.
8. Everything falls on the MD. If something goes wrong - anytime - it's the MD who wears it. Therefore, when you say you're going to be an MD, you'd better be ready to do everything it takes.

Additions?
Click to expand...

9. Accept the fact that you are very likely not going to shoot the match, and if you do, it will be after a hard days work, and it will suck.
 
ENSHOOTER said:
I It seems we have a group of shooter who like to bad mouth but I have yet to see them do anything constructive.
I know at Nationals I was sicken by attitudes of some who thought it was wrong they had to work. If you don't want to work pay the sponsorship fee and life is good. Let me also say I found the attitude of most much better and a few including Heavy Machine mech. from B.C. had to be told to sit, in order not burn themselves out.
A message to my least favourite type of competitor. " I am a Range staff volunteer not the "hired help" my job is to run the stage not to be your whipping post for every issue you have with match, stage design , organization ect. We all volunteer our time to run matches not put up with your s**t..
Click to expand...

If a competitor gives an RO, CRO or anyone else a hard time during the match, the RO, CRO, or Range Master, should give the jerk, an eye opening Match DQ under:

10.6 Match Disqualification – Unsportsmanlike Conduct
10.6.1 Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be
unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsportsmanlike conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating, dishonesty,
failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, or any behavior likely to bring the sport
into disrepute. The Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.....

....10.6.3 Other persons may be expelled from the range for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unacceptable.
Examples of unacceptable conduct include, but are not limited to, failing to comply with the reasonable
directions of a Match Official, interference with the operation of a course of fire and/or a competitor's
attempt thereof, and any other behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute....


The Official just has to have the guts to do it, especially at the Nationals or Provincials. I'm sure it would open everyone elses eyes too!!
 
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Crapshoot
I am well aware of both of those rules. I am the only official I know who has DQ'd 2 competitors using them. One for a scoring call in which their was a disagreement in which I was pushed and as result fell. The second was someone tossing their firearm from about 50 feet away into the safety area after a less then great performance. Both occurred in US and many years ago. Although the wording has change in terms of flagrant or gross that was not what I was referring to.
What I was referring too is some competitors are a pleasure to Run. Hand sake afterward. positive attitude. Others offer only negative comments. About why your match is not good enough, the system is so much better somewhere else. ect.
In hind sight it seems to me some of the best officials I have ever worked with were offend under poor weather conditions. Too hot, No shade, too cold, rain, Mud ect but their is always that sense of pride of having made it thru having done your job well. Must be why we do it or other wise we are stupid.
 
I've only ever complained about one match, ever, Nationals two years ago. I still had fun and made a point to thank each and every range official there. It wasn't their fault, so no point in taking it out on them. In fact I think the only range official I've ever done anything unsportsmanlike to (at least non IPSC like) is Enshooter, we decided to adopt an NFL type attitude and shower him with the cooler, ahhhh the memories.
but back to the subject at hand, I hope that people learn from this. It doesn't matter who you are, what level you shoot at, how old you are, how new you are, respect is always important, grandstanding, inflated ego's are the bane of any competitive sport (watch table tennis on TV lately? you'd know what I mean). it's important that people remember this and carry it on. Hey group hug time everyone.
 
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