Match grade barrels. Are they really?? :)
- Thread starter Brianma65
- Start date
The word match sells rifles these days, this is obvious by the amount of guys saying a black rifle is crap if it doesn't shoot 1 moa or better. The manufacturers, retailers and barrel makers have caught on and it seems they just label everything as match these days. Hell, the Mickey Mouse x39 manufacturer made a match safety, lol.
A really good barrel can run you upwards of $900. If it's installed at the factory it's not a match grade barrel, it's just a cheap barrel cut to a fatter profile.
A true match barrel, like a Krieger or whatever your favorite brand is will be made to tighter tolerances, hand lapped, air gauged etc... The biggest difference though is the heat treating and stress relieving that is done. Properly stress relieving the barrel is what gets you shot after shot repeatable hits even as the barrel gets hot. A cheap barrel will start stringing shots as it heats up.
This is why almost all factory rifles are capable of nice groups if you shoot really slow but as soon as the barrel starts getting hot the shots start wandering.
I've also found that a true match grade barrel will typically shoot cheap ammo better as well. I had an AR a few years ago that had a sweet barrel on it and even with cheap American Eagle I could print some nice groups that my other AR's couldn't touch. Feed it handloads tuned to that barrel and it was amazing.
Is it worth it? Not for most people, especially if you don't do any shooting past 100 yards but if you actually want very consistent groups that remain consistent as the barrel warms up then there is no other way to go.
Ask any competitive shooter in a discipline that values accuracy over multiple shots in a short amount of time how many matches they've won with a factory barrel.
A really good barrel can run you upwards of $900. If it's installed at the factory it's not a match grade barrel, it's just a cheap barrel cut to a fatter profile.
A true match barrel, like a Krieger or whatever your favorite brand is will be made to tighter tolerances, hand lapped, air gauged etc... The biggest difference though is the heat treating and stress relieving that is done. Properly stress relieving the barrel is what gets you shot after shot repeatable hits even as the barrel gets hot. A cheap barrel will start stringing shots as it heats up.
This is why almost all factory rifles are capable of nice groups if you shoot really slow but as soon as the barrel starts getting hot the shots start wandering.
I've also found that a true match grade barrel will typically shoot cheap ammo better as well. I had an AR a few years ago that had a sweet barrel on it and even with cheap American Eagle I could print some nice groups that my other AR's couldn't touch. Feed it handloads tuned to that barrel and it was amazing.
Is it worth it? Not for most people, especially if you don't do any shooting past 100 yards but if you actually want very consistent groups that remain consistent as the barrel warms up then there is no other way to go.
Ask any competitive shooter in a discipline that values accuracy over multiple shots in a short amount of time how many matches they've won with a factory barrel.
Last edited:
- Location
- On the edge of an "Inland Sea"
Old school "Match Barrel" on my Springfield Super Match. I don't have a normal M1A to put beside it so you can really see how big it is.
I have let more than a few people shoot this rifle and almost all of them have put some very small groups on paper and gongs w a y out there........
I have let more than a few people shoot this rifle and almost all of them have put some very small groups on paper and gongs w a y out there........
Attachments
Yeah I don't really buy into the match grade hype. I used to work with a guy who, standing and unsupported, could shoot a well used (think thousands up thousands of rounds through it) ar15 sp1 sporter ar a hundred yards and produce a 1 inch group. Guy was a freak of nature though.
That's why you don't buy into the "hype"?
Your story has nothing to do with match grade anything, just a story about a guy who was a good shot.
A quality barrel makes a difference.
I think that since this is the battle rifle section he's most likely talking about the "match" AR-15 and AR-10 barrels that you can get for under $500, I don't think he's talking about a custom built match grade barrel for a premium long range bolt gun build.
I dont know what MRA does to their barrels, like stress relief due to fluting. But they are made from IBI blanks, and IBI makes some really nice barrels that shoot and are made to very finite specs. I cant see nitriding and fluting by MRA helping accuracy, just wear characteristics and weight.
Take a look at how IBI manufactures barrels and I think you'll be impressed. Their honing machine is the most advanced in Canada and the only one in Canada.
Also take a look at their Facebook pages and you'll see many examples that they definitely shoot. I think they have much more experience with bolt gun barrels but I am in the process of load development for my IBI AR 10 barrel in 308 and I certainly like what I see.
As mentioned previously, a match grade barrel is an overused term but if the machining is done to super tight tolerances, stressed relieved multiple times, hand lapped and honed then I think you have a match grade barrel. Of course every single barrel is different as is every chamber cut into it. You still need to find what it likes and hopefully it likes something. I believe your chances of getting a barrel that shoots bug holes is much more likely given the attention to detail during manufacturing. The AR barrels are just inherently less accurate as they are less rigid and not free floating. Harmonics matter and having a gas block, gas tube and reciprocating mass and longer recoil impulse via the BCG do not help accuracy.
Most of the companies selling these so called "match grade" barrels don't even make them themselves.
They simply buy Green Mountain or Rock Creek blanks (read cheap) and do nothing more than contour, chamber and put their name on it.
Regardless I think that manufacturing processes have improved enough that these are still good barrels that will shoot good enough for most people.
If someone wants to squeeze a little extra consistency and accuracy out of a barrel it's going to cost a lot more for that little bit of extra.
They simply buy Green Mountain or Rock Creek blanks (read cheap) and do nothing more than contour, chamber and put their name on it.
Regardless I think that manufacturing processes have improved enough that these are still good barrels that will shoot good enough for most people.
If someone wants to squeeze a little extra consistency and accuracy out of a barrel it's going to cost a lot more for that little bit of extra.
Cost really doesn't make it a Match grade barrel....its the tolerance in the bore that does and honing. I'm not sure to what tolerance a factory barrel is but I hear match grade barrels have a bore dia. tolerance of .0001" (one in ten thousand).
Tighter tolerances, better finish honing, lapping, and proper stress relieving take time which costs more so higher cost is a byproduct of making a barrel properly.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Perfect Description. Also, in the chambering and set up process, Competition barrel makers are going to hold to tighter tolerances and more willing to scrap a barrel not to spec.
I think competition is a better description as "match" has been so overused it has lost so much of its meaning.
For me, the key is consistency and repeatability. If you are shooting quality ammo (preferably handloads tuned to the barrel needs), the barrel should offer a consistent sub MOA performance.. not the occasional hero group or if you discount "pulled shots".
The best way to prove performance is to take the CGN AR accuracy challenge. On 1 target, shoot 5X 5rds groups. Take whatever time needed under calm conditions... but all shots count. No mulligans or shoot overs. Put 5 groups down and see what the largest group is and the average.
If you are really ambitious, do it again.
A true competition grade barrel is going to hammer that target with boring regularity and there really isn't going to be huge difference between the widest and the average. The first time I did this challenge, 1 shot was out pushing my 5 group average a hint too far... so I did it again and finished. 49 of 50rds met the accuracy challenge. I would say that is pretty consistent.
I was shooting a McGowen AR15 barrel put onto a Norc M4. Nothing special from a rifle standpoint but the barrel sure shot well with my handloads.
Was just doing a function test for a customer.. starting load in 6.5 Creedmoor... one group. Figured it was enough to prove the rifle shoots.
Ironically, these McGowen barrels don't cost a much more then other makes and they have been shooting really well.
AR competition in the US is a massive market and the top barrel makers have to be at the top of their game to keep on the podium. Here you will see manfs like Shilen and Krieger doing very well at National level events.
Shooters can debate semantics all day... I prefer to just let the targets speak for themself.
PM or email if I can help with a barrel that can shoot itty bitty groups.
Jerry
Attachments
A commonly held misconception above.
Quality of manufacture being equal, An AR barrel is every bit as accurate as a barrel spun onto a bolt gun. If the barrel is floated, and the gas tube is properly installed, the assembly should impart no discern-able difference to harmonics or repeatability, and is at that point offering nothing less than a decent bolt action.
Reciprocating mass can and will mess with the shooter's consistency, but that is on the shooter, not the rifle's ability.
I found that my AR 10 was quite accurate, printing groups in the .7 .8 range.
But I still don’t see why shooting a semi is any more difficult than a bolt.
It’s basically the same principle, isn’t it?
Breath , squeeze the trigger, get back on target, repeat.
What am I missing?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
This ^^^^^
Investigate what the US AR competitors have been achieving for over a decade and it will change your mind on what is possible WHEN quality barrels are installed and set up properly. Again, QUALITY match barrels not something with "match" stamped to the side of a box.
Chambers matter .... just like a precision bolt rifle.
A common mistake reloaders have with self loading rifles is trying to load them like a bolt rifle. Each semi system has its design parameters and you have to load to that need - gas port pressure, gas volume, dwell, etc. The AR DI system is one of most forgiving of mil type rifles and why they are shooting so well. The overall design is really smart and when the right combo of ammo is allowed to work, SUB MOA Groups are possible... not the occasional Instagram group.
The shooter that now owns the green BCL in 6.5 CM pictured sent me a pic of a group on his 800yd gong... it was a scant 4"
Jerry
