I plan on the wk180-c, was going to buy a restricted AR but not now. I prefer to be able to take my rifles anyplace I like, and I don't start ordering parts to dress up a rifle just because I want it to look like something else. I will be selling my Kel-tec su16f though, functions just fine but accuracy is below what I would like. Time will tell though on the wk 180-c, until they get delivered and used everybody is just guessing about performance.
Mccabee or WK180?
- Thread starter guess_kto
- Start date
I personally agree with you and feel that having a NR FRT in hand is a must have before venturing outdoors. Without it you have no recognised and acceptable proof of NR status. I do not foresee any success in an encounter with law enforcement whereby you can state for example, the Armalite AR-180B has an FRT and is NR so my similar looking rifle of a different manufacturer, model and country of origin is ok based on the other FRT. For me, when i have any AR looking rifle in hand outside, I carry that exact manufacturers make/model NR FRT with me as a PDF on my iPhone and a paper copy in my transport case. Then the conversation becomes, no this is not an AR, no this is not restricted, here is the proof, check for yourself, thank you and have a nice day.
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Why? With the mcabee i am building the ar i want. Yes the magwell looks odd. But it's a stronger receiver. And it gets set up exactly how I want. And parts are everywhere for it.
That being said the wk180 is a better budget option. I am waiting to see if they work well and if they bring out a 7.62x39 I will be getting one.
That being said the wk180 is a better budget option. I am waiting to see if they work well and if they bring out a 7.62x39 I will be getting one.
ATRS receiver isn't goofy looking, doesn't use a proprietary trigger pack, uses a takedown pin not bolt, is made of the same material as SLR, you can truly make the rifle you want and it's $25 cheaper lol
With all that said I'm getting a WK180-C and hopefully that will help tide me over until the ATRS receiver's arrival 
Exactly, there has to be something for everyone now, and if not, they're too damn picky. 2018 is the year of the NR black rifle.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
I am embarrassed at this comparison between the Maccabee Defence SLR and our WK180-C this makes as much sense as comparing a Cart Horse with a Racing Thoroughbred. They are designed for different purposes. In my opinion the Maccebee SLR is the bases for a custom built match rifle, sure she will not be the cheapest but that was not their objective. I designed the WK180-C as an affordable, reliable, “plinker” the Cart Horse if you like. I see a place for both and I doubt if either of us will be fighting over the same customers.
As for the NR Tax, our price is plus tax! I jest. The vast majority of the time accusations of a NR Tax are completely unjust. We have been accused of them in the past, but our retail price is determined firstly by our cost.
Right now Maccabee Defence is been accused of charging this tax which in my opinion is completely unfounded. Maccabee did not have the luxury of copying a simple design like us, their R&D costs would have been higher, they ran bigger risks and their specialist market is much smaller than ours, they have to hold their machining to a higher tolerance than us, they start with different materials. People should remember that before attacking them, I wish them every success, they deserve it, I am confident that their SLR will provide great value for money.
Why are Canadian gun owners so negative towards one another and so quick to attack, no wonder we can never have a united front when required. Anyway that is my sermon for this Sunday
As for the NR Tax, our price is plus tax! I jest. The vast majority of the time accusations of a NR Tax are completely unjust. We have been accused of them in the past, but our retail price is determined firstly by our cost.
Right now Maccabee Defence is been accused of charging this tax which in my opinion is completely unfounded. Maccabee did not have the luxury of copying a simple design like us, their R&D costs would have been higher, they ran bigger risks and their specialist market is much smaller than ours, they have to hold their machining to a higher tolerance than us, they start with different materials. People should remember that before attacking them, I wish them every success, they deserve it, I am confident that their SLR will provide great value for money.
Why are Canadian gun owners so negative towards one another and so quick to attack, no wonder we can never have a united front when required. Anyway that is my sermon for this Sunday
Exactly what I've been trying to say. The only commonality between these two is they are NR.
I don't know why people constantly try to turn everything into a pissing match like there can be only one. I own at least 5 NR black rifles and I'll probably end up with one of the WK180's and when they're available I'm pretty sure I'll buy the ATRS receiver set for a build. I'm skipping the SLR because I don't need to have another rifle right this second, I'll wait patiently for the parts I want from a manufacturer I know and want to support.
These are two completely different tools aimed at two entirely different market segments. Plus, we're somehow comparing a complete rifle to a receiver set that costs the same amount, how does that make sense?
I find it funny that guys are looking at the SLR set and planning the ultimate budget build for all the rest of the parts. Why not just buy a used XCR or Tavor for around $2000 instead. $1000 for a receiver set is not the way to start a budget build. Go hard or go home
Hey John, do you have any details about the barrel gas port size on the 180-c?
Since it was said that they use an AR compatible barrel I was wondering if the gas port size was also standard AR size or if it was adjusted for the piston system. The reason I ask is that my Bushmaster ACR piston system is more efficient than the DI system of the AR so if I run a standard AR barrel I end up overgassed. Just wondering if the 180-c will be the same or if it's going to be as simple as just swapping in the barrel of our choice with the correct gas system length.
Also, is there much parts compatibility from the 180-C to my 180-B, just wondering if this may end up being a parts source for a spare bolt for my B.
Thanks for going through all the trouble of bringing this to our market, I hope you sell every rifle that is made as fast as they can be built.
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This is exactly what I've been trying to get through to people. These are two totally different products that will serve two totally different markets. There is NO comparison between the two.
'NR Tax' is the traditional screw over more than a tax. It's often inflated further by the "I'll pay anything" pimps. Wolverine has avoided both to their credit.
Having more guns out there is good for our community. Better to have thousands than a few hundred the bureaurats are itching to ban.
Having more guns out there is good for our community. Better to have thousands than a few hundred the bureaurats are itching to ban.
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Lungorthin
Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Probably same reason as the "console wars" (PC vs. Xbox vs. Playstation). People invest their ego into things they buy because they don't want to think they made the wrong choice and wasted their investments of time, interest, and money. So they get defensive and try to cut the other parties down to make themselves feel elevated and justify why they made the better choice, but that's usually always subjective of course.
That's just my theory, anyway.
Not everyone pre-ordered SLR for "features" to custom build "match" rifle. NR black rifle with easy to get parts was the big sell. That applies to WK too. That's why in the poll about the same number of people opted for each rifle, but WK gets an extra 33% boost from people who switch.
The SLR has no parts to fail so that's a moot point. It is entirely dependent on the parts the user selects. The WK180C is a different story. 6061 is decent but it's not the same as 7075. Will that be a major issue? Who knows, but 7075 is the only material approved per milspec for AR rifles. Something to think about.
I see the pic at the end of the thread, do you have any other information about production, or FRT status?
A billet receiver set will cost you nearly a grand as it stands, and that's from large US manufacturers not a small Canadian business with a very small market.
That is dependent on the quality of parts used.
Again no... Billet receiver sets now cost nearly $1000 from large US manufacturers so the $1000 price of a Canadain non res set is more than reasonable.
Again wrong, CSC already answered this but you need to take into account all factors in manufacturing costs.
Some fine factual posting here! ^^^
True, but as has been stated the FRT is not legally required although it is a big plus to have..
RIGHT!! ^^^
CSC's post absolutely addressed the cost issues. You simply can't understand that a small Canadian company cannot produce small batches for the same cost as a large US company producing large batches. You can't buy a Ferrari for the price of a KIA for the same reasons.
As for the WK180C performance. If it's cheaper to buy then it must be cheaper to produce which means the quality is likely lacking to achieve that. No one is saying it will suck, it simply won't be an amazing performer as some are leading themselves to believe. I think it will be more than adequate for most uses and a precision rifle it was never meant to be.
It's priced at a level the market will bear, like all products...
I actually don't even care if it only cost them $2 to make a receiver set.
I want one, nobody else is selling the same product, and I can't make one myself.
I don't have a problem paying people for their skills or their work and especially their innovation.
YEP!! ^^^
AGREED!! ^^^
AS I posted above, only 7075 is milspec approved for AR rifles. There's a reason for that....
You talk about expense then indicate you own an ACR?! Talk about an over priced product!
Cheaper price means cheaper to make which means quality likely took a backseat to meet that criteria.
ATRS receiver isn't goofy looking, doesn't use a proprietary trigger pack, uses a takedown pin not bolt, is made of the same material as SLR, you can truly make the rifle you want and it's $25 cheaper lol
Looks are irrelevant and the SLR has an altered magwell, that's it.
Trigger pack is irrelevant as it accepts most triggers anyway.
Take down pins are irrelevant. Field stripping is not a time sensitive operation nor is it a frequent one.
The ATRS offering is nowhere near production and has no FRT.
I would buy any of them immediately if they were available right now. If I could afford it I would buy one of each and convert all my ARs to non restricted. We have to support all these companies and purchase what is more suited to your use. I love the fact that we have these options and hope it doesn’t just stop here. Who knows maybe they will finally make the AR non-restricted because they might just as well as we won’t be stopped into having what we want. If there is a market then someone will find a way around these stupid rules.
Plan to order the WK180. Wolverine is a solid company who keeps on giving. Don’t think for one second that they couldnt of charged another $500 and still sold a #### load of rifles, but they didnt. They genuinly give a damn, which is why I’m lining up for one.
The SLR is what we Canadians have alawys wanted. I am very pleased its an option, and very excited to see the builds people will be making. Its too rich for me right now, but I will have one in the future. In the mean time, I hope both products are successful and everybody gets what they want.
The SLR is what we Canadians have alawys wanted. I am very pleased its an option, and very excited to see the builds people will be making. Its too rich for me right now, but I will have one in the future. In the mean time, I hope both products are successful and everybody gets what they want.
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It's in production and you can buy one now. FRT not complete, but it's also not a legal requirement. It has been submitted for FRT and is still waiting, receiver is built off the modern varmint as the parent.
ATRS prefers to wait until FRT is given, but you can take a chance and buy one now.
ATRS prefers to wait until FRT is given, but you can take a chance and buy one now.
It keeps getting dredged up that a boutique set of over priced billet AR receivers are close in cost to the MDI set.
Fine, whatever some of you use to justify the high costs, but you don’t need a billet set of receivers to make an AR shoot.
You could take a Krieger barrel, arguably the best quality barrels available for an AR, and install it on a set of Norinco receivers that would give most any boltgun a run for their money, and perform just as well as any custom billet set, the MDI set included. They are cases after all.
It’s also been raised that they serve different markets? That is the most rediculous thing I’ve heard.
Both are serving the same firearms community and gun owners who want to, or are currently using ARs and other black rifles, and still others that want to use or have the option to use them away from an approved range.
The notion that some believe these rifles are going to be divided along the lines of cost alone?
It’s absurd. Proof of this is evident by early adopters planning on completing budget builds based off of the MDI receivers.
MDI were first out of the gate in offering an option to have a non-restricted semi-auto that mimics the AR, using AR parts, and it is evident that they enjoyed a brief monopoly by the price structure they set.
Fine, whatever some of you use to justify the high costs, but you don’t need a billet set of receivers to make an AR shoot.
You could take a Krieger barrel, arguably the best quality barrels available for an AR, and install it on a set of Norinco receivers that would give most any boltgun a run for their money, and perform just as well as any custom billet set, the MDI set included. They are cases after all.
It’s also been raised that they serve different markets? That is the most rediculous thing I’ve heard.
Both are serving the same firearms community and gun owners who want to, or are currently using ARs and other black rifles, and still others that want to use or have the option to use them away from an approved range.
The notion that some believe these rifles are going to be divided along the lines of cost alone?
It’s absurd. Proof of this is evident by early adopters planning on completing budget builds based off of the MDI receivers.
MDI were first out of the gate in offering an option to have a non-restricted semi-auto that mimics the AR, using AR parts, and it is evident that they enjoyed a brief monopoly by the price structure they set.
