Modern Varmint style uppers and lowers

jiffx2781 said:
Now here's the BIG question. Trigger compatibility?

This is where MacDef is severely lacking. I think it's a huge fail on their behalf that you can't use 1 piece drop in's. Drop in's are what the industry is evolving into (has evolved into) and there are now so many options from many manufacturers. As you know from the MH/MV experience people want (expect) options.
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Well assuming we get the legal status we hope for, options are endless. The prototype will accept ANY trigger group designed for an AR.
 
PinaKaleada said:
I think this is going to be a winner! I've had my eyes on your products for a long time. If you can come up with an upper/lower thats reasonably priced, I'd choose yours over others. Lastly, is it possible to not have the Canadian flag markings on it? Less is more nowadays. :)
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Not a fan of being a Canadian? The more we have to mess with things the more it will cost. The UN marking regulations as well as the Canadian have to be adherred to.
The leaf on our rifles and products is our trademark.

We are expecting to be the same price range as out AT15 uppers and lowers at about $950.00 for a stripped upper and lower. BUT at this point we have not established an exact price point, nor whether to use 6061 or 7075 material as that also effect price. It seems everyone wants cheap cheap cheap, so we are wrestling with the material dilemma.
 
jiffx2781 said:
Raw materials cost is one of the lesser costs in the big picture of producing the finished product. It is definitely worth the few bucks more to go with 7075. I'll pick quality any day. It's not worth cutting corners to save a few pesos.
Just my .02
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The raw materials cost is almost exactly double between the 2 materials. Small yes but going with 7 series is $60.00 more in base costs, hence our contemplation. The prototypes are 6061 just to keep R&D costs down as low as possible.
I agree that cutting corners is not my idea of the best way to go, but from years of reading about how quality seems to always be second to cost on the forums, makes me wonder.
 
Rick, I know I have been a thorn in your side (probably more than I should have been) previously about the trigger options on the Modern series, and I apologize for that.

But with this anouncement, you better believe I will be looking to purchase a couple MV-S reciever sets which would certainly be preferable over the MDI SLR's odd means of mating upper to lower amoung other things.

I am hopefull you will also consider doing a MH-S model as well.

I had heard this spring from a little birdy that this project was in the shop talk phase, but that you were not very receptive to moving forward on it at the time. I am certianly glad that thats not the case anymore, and look forward to adding a few more finely crafted ATRS rifles to the safe, soon they shall out number the IWI rifles. :)

Any chance we can see a teaser for the new MV-S?
 
jiffx2781 said:
Raw materials cost is one of the lesser costs in the big picture of producing the finished product. It is definitely worth the few bucks more to go with 7075. I'll pick quality any day. It's not worth cutting corners to save a few pesos.
Just my .02
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This. Unless your material choice will save the consumer 25%+ on just the reciever set, its not worth the consideration in my opinion.
 
Glad to see ATRS broadening the product line, especially that now it's clear that rifles built on NR AR-compatible upper/lower sets that aren't NEA will all cost $2500+. I also said would rather see MH calibers in an "economy" version.
 
I just got my MV, it's still in the back seat.
I've had a half dozen or so looks at it,but that's it til I get home :)

This gun looks and feels awesome.
I'm really pleased with it ,so far:)
Thanks

So , I'm quite happy with the way that the MV currently is.
Would I be able to buy a stripped 6.5 upper ,that mates with my current MV lower?

Thanks
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Not a fan of being a Canadian? The more we have to mess with things the more it will cost. The UN marking regulations as well as the Canadian have to be adherred to.
The leaf on our rifles and products is our trademark.

We are expecting to be the same price range as out AT15 uppers and lowers at about $950.00 for a stripped upper and lower. BUT at this point we have not established an exact price point, nor whether to use 6061 or 7075 material as that also effect price. It seems everyone wants cheap cheap cheap, so we are wrestling with the material dilemma.
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excellent news. glad to hear that more Canadian manufacturers are following this trend.

my 2 cents is to go as cheap as possible. Your focus should be on people who already own AR's and have already put money into AR's, but want a sort of 'upgrade kit' to swap to a new receiver and make it non-restricted. If people want a high-quality rifle, the MV and MH are already available. The perfect world would be a product that becomes a 'must-buy' for anyone who owns AR's.

950$ is not bad, and will be comparable to the SLR stripped receiver. Is that the absolute bottom price for this sort of design? Is there any major way to cut costs?
 
Harnis said:
excellent news. glad to hear that more Canadian manufacturers are following this trend.

my 2 cents is to go as cheap as possible. Your focus should be on people who already own AR's and have already put money into AR's, but want a sort of 'upgrade kit' to swap to a new receiver and make it non-restricted. If people want a high-quality rifle, the MV and MH are already available. The perfect world would be a product that becomes a 'must-buy' for anyone who owns AR's.

950$ is not bad, and will be comparable to the SLR stripped receiver. Is that the absolute bottom price for this sort of design? Is there any major way to cut costs?
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To preface this comment, I am not in manufacturing so this is just based on my knowledge and research but...

You must realize that the vast majority of AR uppers and lowers are forged by like 3 main manufactures allowing for economy of scale, then each manufacture puts there own finishing cuts on it. These recievers Rick makes are proprietary being produced from machining solid billet aluminum, racking up a large amount machine time. You will notice that ATRS' billet machined AT-15 (AR) reciever sets are similarly priced to the MV-S estimated price sets.

Machine time is costly but makes for a professional grade fit and finish when coupled with a company synonymous with quality like ATRS is. Unfortunately there really is a big limitation on the ability to produce a design cheaply if its not being mass produced. I dont really fo see a cheaper Canadian specific design achieving a cheaper price at any point unfortunately. Just the cost of admission as it may be.
 
Harnis said:
excellent news. glad to hear that more Canadian manufacturers are following this trend.

my 2 cents is to go as cheap as possible. Your focus should be on people who already own AR's and have already put money into AR's, but want a sort of 'upgrade kit' to swap to a new receiver and make it non-restricted. If people want a high-quality rifle, the MV and MH are already available. The perfect world would be a product that becomes a 'must-buy' for anyone who owns AR's.

950$ is not bad, and will be comparable to the SLR stripped receiver. Is that the absolute bottom price for this sort of design? Is there any major way to cut costs?
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The only ways to reduce costs is to have them made offshore by the tens of thousands, not a likely scenario as the market in Canada in minute.
Not pay the machinists or rent on our building, don't think that will go over well.
Make them out of recycled paper, not terribly durable though.
Not bother at all.

All joking aside.

What Canadians just don't get is the market in Canada is minuscule, so high volume production just is not possible. This is why the big companies don't even bother with Canada when it comes to designing and producing something to fit our stupid laws. With the exceptions of a few handgun makers who are occasionally willing to make a 4.2" barrelled hand gun, I can't think of a single large gun maker who has offered anything that is truly ARish and made specifically for the Canadian market.

A friend of mine owns a part of 1 of the high end gun club/stores in Scottsdale. They sell more guns from their shop in 1 month than we do in a year and sell more ammo in a month than probably all Canadian gun stores do in 6 months together. Availability of full auto may play a part in this?

I can't remember the numbers exactly but seem to recall there are more people in Montana, a sparsely populated state than there are PAL holders in all of Canada.
And more SKS rifles have been made than the entire population of Canada, so the economies of scale just don't work with a tiny sales base.

Keep in mind too that ALL of the various Canadian NR rifles are not worth a dime in the USA as AR's don't have restrictions there and Canadian made AR style rifles on the whole are NON importable into the USA which kills any potential for sales in the USA from the beginning.

IF the market was there to sell even several thousand rifles rather than several hundred, which is really what the Canadian market will support, the numbers would change to a degree. Unfortunately this is not the case for firearms sales in Canada.
The simple fact is that Canada is an expensive country to produce things in as well as live in. The higher wages and taxes that support our standard of living as well as our "free" medical system have a cost, and that cost is that Canadian made is more expensive due to our higher cost of living when compared to our southern neighbors.
 
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Hey I don’t know if this is covered or not, but can you make the front dimensions for the upper receivers similar to an AR, so it can accept a wider amount of handguards? I would be looking at the M4A1 RIS II, which has some bolts protruding.
 
onetwentyish said:
Any chance the new MV-S will have a forward assist? This seems to be a common complaint from the hunting crowd who wish to not hunt with one in the chamber.
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Initially we figured to include it, but are undecided at this point due to costs. To include a forward assist and milled in place shell deflector requires larger material, which adds to the cost as well as adds about 30 minutes of machine time, which again increases the end cost. The shell deflectors on the MH and MV are fairly inexpensive to make in comparison to milling them out of the larger billet. 6 minutes of machine time and we can use the scrap from the mags wells for material.

It seems more guys are in favor of cheaper than any other feature and you can't have it both ways. We still have time to change this as we are still working on the final prototype to put into production.

I guess in the end it all depends on whether a forward assist and milled in shell deflector are worth roughly $100.00 in the overall cost. We have not established a firm price yet, but this is just another part to factor into the final price.
 
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