Modern varmint vs bushmaster acr ?

I personally prefer the ACR due to how easily and with out tools the features set can be altered to a specific philosophy of use. You can go from PDW to Carbine to Rifle to DMR layout in any caliber that can function in a mag that fits a Stanag magwell, from 5.56 to .50 Beowulf in 9"-18.5" barrel.

If like me you wish to embrace "Adaptive" part of the ACR acronym (which in my opinion is the single biggest advantage of the ACR), the ACR is the only money pit you will ever need, and can fill the multi-role/multi-caliber rifle gap better than any other firearm I have seen thus far, which is why in my opinion the design really should have replaced the M4 in Nato armories.

Unsuprisingly the single biggest advantage the MV is also the weakest point of the ACR. The MV is less bulky and front heavy than a ACR with a comparable barrel and fore end due to the ACR's heavier piston system. That said, the ACR is manageable with the right barrel and forend choices, so I see this as more of a neutral point than a negative for the ACR, and a positive for the MV, especially since nearly all gas guns run a piston design making it the standard and gas impingement designs the exception.

The MV's single biggest disadvantage in my opinion is that it lacks the ability at this time to stray from the single pin Timney trigger as well as most other mechanical parts are either proprietary (examples: upper/lower reciever, charging handle) or modified specifically for one of the Modern series' several quarks that differentiate it from a AR (examples: barrel index pin, charging handle slot).

To sum up the MV, it is alot of give and take. I feel Rick did a pretty decent job for the most part negotiating which features of the AR design are the best, how to keep them, and how to best set the MV apart from an AR while still making it possible for us to use most aftermarket AR parts caveat being many need some small modification (which can get costly very quickly!).

If you just want a dedicated (PDW/Carbine/Rifle/DMR)rifle, either the ACR or the MV can do that at similar costs for similar set ups (although the MV aint as good for the PDW or Carbine build as Rick does not want to see any variations of his MV wear a R status, and frankly I cant see the point either when you can buy an R status AR for $600, that said he cant stop you but he can choose not to help you). Its important to note that either platform with a barrel shorter than 18.5" is classified to restricted and as such requires you register it with the CFC with in 30 days. Neither platform is subject to permanent restricted status and like wise converting a specific example to restricted has no baring on the models classification, instead it will just get a child FRT # if one does not already exist for that barrel length and caliber. Its essentially the reverse of the ACR were up until lately all came factory restricted 16" barreled rifles that needed to be rebarreled to 18.5" before a child FRT # could be issued to represent the NR status.
 
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What I wrote is exactly how what you have written in the past comes across.

If you are not against conversions, I would be happy to purchase a rifle minus all the specific 223/556 caliber parts if it is offered new. Otherwise I will continue to look privately

Part of the agreement with our insurance carrier is that only complete and test fired rifles can be sold, shipped or delivered or we are in breech of our insurance mandate.

You have to understand 1 simple thing about the MH and MV, to date they are the only Canadian designed and manufactured semi auto rifles in existence. And from this fact we had to fight like hell to convince LLoyds that we, A) knew what we were doing and, B) made a safe product that would not expose them to greater liability.
This then brings us right back to the fact that our rifles ARE NOT Ar's, so what may apply to an AR does NOT necessarily apply to our rifles.

If all that is holding you up is the $50.00 hand guard that the "Factory" model comes with, I don't see the problem. Buy a "Factory" model Varmint, pick a handguard you like, ship it to us and we can swap it over for you, probably in exchange for the factory hand guard we offer. The caveat is to get it done BEFORE we start assembling a production run so as to not complicate our assembly work. If we have to strip down the upper, there will be some added costs for the additional labor.

If the problem is the desire for some obscure caliber, I am sure some gunsmith can make you a barrel and absorb the liability attached with doing so. We make our rifles in several readily available calibers only, more could be in the future but they will be mainstream and not 7.62x39.

You can do whatever you wish with any rifle you purchase from us as long as you understand that we will only warrant what we build and supply.

Eg. You buy a GM pick up but want to power it with a Ram 5.9 Cummins. As long as you have the $$ to do the conversion and someone has the skills, GM won't care what you do.
If you want to modify our rifle and it doesn't work, or blows up or whatever, after whatever modifications you make are done, it is then not our problem, so we have no concerns.

We will not and can not sell just the upper and lower as separate parts.
 
How come every MH/MV thread turns into this. Not pointing fingers specifically, just an observation. Things were going well here.

Back to our regular programming please.

120 gave a real good analysis of the two platforms.

OP, have you managed to get your barrel nut retightened properly? Have you figured out what caused the stoppages? I would suspect that the stoppages are mag related. Have you used the mags that were in it while the malfunction occurred previously in this gun? Anyone have any advice for him?
 
I wounldnt go that far. The MH has had its share of issues as well. I rather build my own AR10 the way I want it. Unfortunately building a MH the way I want is way more money. Sure the basic MH wouldn't of been much more but then Id be stuck with a basic looking rig.

Im also still waiting on the IOP. The less money I give NEA the better. Specially since it dosent look like they will ever just sell the receiver set.

The issues I've seen regarding the MH were mostly from guys not listening to ATRS. The rifle was advertised as being a little finicky with ammo due to the tighter chamber and certain types of ammunition such as surplus cheap crap were mentioned as being unreliable yet people still tried to run the cheapest crap ammo they could find through their $3500+ rifle then blame the rifle for the issues they were having. There are also people out there that went against ATRS warning that it would void the warranty if they messed with the trigger yet people who have no idea what they are doing figured that since they could change an AR trigger they would just go ahead and try to remove the trigger resulting in damaged lower receivers.
Then there are the guys that say they aren't accurate, well, if you feed it cheap ammo it's probably not accurate but if you feed it premium or handloads (not just any premium but spend the time to figure out what your rifle likes) then they are quite accurate if the person behind the trigger is capable. People don't realize how hard it is to shoot a semi auto consistently into sub moa groups, it takes a lot more than a good rifle and ammunition.
Sure it would have been nice to have a chamber with a little more wiggle room so it was more reliable with more types of ammo but it was never advertised as a general duty assault rifle, it's always been aimed more at precision shooters but unfortunately many people choose the wrong tool for their intended use then blame the tool.
My MH has been cycling flawlessly with my handloads (not using a small base die) and accuracy is as good or better than any other non restricted semi I've shot (similar to an SL8 or an ACR with Herron barrel).

For me anyway, I'm happy with the trigger my MH came with and even though I'm not sure why you would need a quick release forend I'm happy with the Fortis that it came with. For me at 9 pounds bare my rifle is light, reliable, and accurate and I don't really feel much need to change anything other than which optic I put on it depending what I want to do.

That being said I also love my ACR, and my M305's, and my Ar180-B, and most other guns. My biggest problem with the 102 is the consistency from the manufacturer, if it wasn't such a crap shoot when buying one I'd add one to my collection as well but considering what we've seen from the first batch of them I'll buy a MV next and that should pretty much be the last NR semi auto I need. Once my Type-81 shows up I'll even have a x39 bullet hose to play with when I just want to shoot cheap ammo and not pick up brass.
 
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My decision came down to ,two things, weight and looks:)

My MV should be about 7 lbs and looks facking cool.

The ACR didn't have neither of those .

Some guys like em slim and sleek.

Some like em fat and ????


JK.


Though ,I've never had either, I kinda thought the ACR, reminded me of my XCR-L.
Really nice ,but a bit to clunky,and heavy ,for a semi .223.
 
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I shoot nothing but cheap crappy steel case ammo in all my rifles, including my 5K+ Cadex. It shouldn't be an issue and should run.

120 is the only one with both rifles, and has pretty much said all that could be said about them.

I kinda thought the ACR, reminded me of my XCR-L.

take that back. them are fighting words...lol..
 
I shoot nothing but cheap crappy steel case ammo in all my rifles, including my 5K+ Cadex. It shouldn't be an issue and should run.

120 is the only one with both rifles, and has pretty much said all that could be said about them.

.

Actually there are quite a number of guys n gals that own both a MH and MV. Most just don't want the abuse they get from some of the forum members if they post anything about the rifles.
 
How come every MH/MV thread turns into this. Not pointing fingers specifically, just an observation. Things were going well here.

Back to our regular programming please.

120 gave a real good analysis of the two platforms.

OP, have you managed to get your barrel nut retightened properly? Have you figured out what caused the stoppages? I would suspect that the stoppages are mag related. Have you used the mags that were in it while the malfunction occurred previously in this gun? Anyone have any advice for him?

I have the barrel on. Went shooting after and that's when I had the two hick ups. First time I every had and issue with the rifle after around 600 rounds of Barnaul. Might try it again this weekend but think i should wait for the reaction rod to come in so I can really torque the barrel nut down. I hand torqued on there with a home made vice block and the pin on my wrench sneered off its on tight but it's how tight that concerns me. As for the issues I'll keep you posted.
 
If all that is holding you up is the $50.00 hand guard that the "Factory" model comes with, I don't see the problem. Buy a "Factory" model Varmint, pick a handguard you like, ship it to us and we can swap it over for you, probably in exchange for the factory hand guard we offer. The caveat is to get it done BEFORE we start assembling a production run so as to not complicate our assembly work. If we have to strip down the upper, there will be some added costs for the additional labor.
my only problem is you do not make it in 30 RAR., I have no desire or use for any of the calibers you currently offer the MV in
 
my only problem is you do not make it in 30 RAR., I have no desire or use for any of the calibers you currently offer the MV in

Buy the "factory" version than do as you wish with it. Sounds like a simple solution to your problem
 
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What is going on with the ridiculously long wait times for the ATRS guns? Besides all the weirdness around changing parts of the gun, that's likely the issue keeping a ton of people from buying.

IMO it's an interesting gun with a good design that could be MUCH more popular if some flaws in the delivery model and marketing were fixed.
 
What is going on with the ridiculously long wait times for the ATRS guns? Besides all the weirdness around changing parts of the gun, that's likely the issue keeping a ton of people from buying.

IMO it's an interesting gun with a good design that could be MUCH more popular if some flaws in the delivery model and marketing were fixed.

I know right.
I was in on the first order,and after 12 months I sold my contract.

I figured after a few runs , they would have the bugs ironed out.
But here I am again.
I'm now in on the 3rd or 4th order and am going on 12 months.

Gets a bit disappointing,after being told 5 to 6 months.
And hearing things like ,the barrels are held up customs,the triggers are held up at customs,our machine is broke etc
LOL..

Anyway,who really knows.
But it's getting tiresome.

I guess maybe ,they're a small shop,and can only afford to order the barrels and triggers ,in a one shot ,large deal.
Not order a separate barrel for every build,etc.
 
I know right.
I was in on the first order,and after 12 months I sold my contract.

I figured after a few runs , they would have the bugs ironed out.
But here I am again.
I'm now in on the 3rd or 4th order and am going on 12 months.

Gets a bit disappointing,after being told 5 to 6 months.
And hearing things like ,the barrels are held up customs,the triggers are held up at customs,our machine is broke etc
LOL..

Anyway,who really knows.
But it's getting tiresome.

I guess maybe ,they're a small shop,and can only afford to order the barrels and triggers ,in a one shot ,large deal.
Not order a separate barrel for every build,etc.
Sorry to hear that.

They need a small business consultant to come in and fix this. Eliminate this whole "built to order" model because it's clearly not working with 12 month lead times. Pick just two versions of each gun, a lightweight and target model for the MV and MH. Stock the parts, build the guns, put them on the shelf and lower the price because you just saved money via economies of scale. If people want to change barrels or whatever the hell, let the aftermarket handle it.

People want to support Canadian businesses, they're just making it incredibly hard to do.
 
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