Modern Varmint What IF?

[onetwentyish]

Read the FRT report we provided with each rifle. It CLEARLY states a Timney trigger is an integral part of the rifle. To make changes as you keep asking us to do will result in having to request another inspection. This costs us time and money to make the prototypes, time to get the new rifle through the SFSS and more importantly puts ALL owners of MH and MV rifles at risk for a re-classification. You have 1 each of our semi auto non restricted rifles. In the immortal words of Harry Callahan, Do ya feel lucky ?

So the short answer is NOT gonna happen.

But integral in what essence? The answer is that itis integral because no other trigger works with it out of the box due to the MV lacking the second pin hole..

To me it seems like this issue mirrors the idea of the pistol mag issue, where people are not modifying there mags to hold ten rounds, but rather modifying their rifles to accept pre-existing pistol mags (Examples include: SKS, VZ58, Swiss Arms, etc.). However in the case of the MV trigger, the controlled and FRT classed part is the lower and how it interfaces with the trigger, and mates with the upper. I am not purposing any changes to the lower whatsoever but rather designing a little chunk of aluminum that one could install a non timney in (essentially making it a "drop in" trigger) that only uses one trigger pin in the lower, same as the Timney currently does. I essence, if changeing this alters the frt, than so would mounting a flared magwell or furthermore.... putting in an aftermarket BCG, or changing the design of the charging handle.

Point is, the Timney is listed in the report as a way or pointing out the lower's difference from an AR, as the MV differs by employing the use of a drop in trigger pack and a single trigger pin. The trigger housing upgrade is not permenant and would not alter the function of the rifle, nor alter the design of the firearm. Period.

My ACR has a Geissele SD-E in it. Not a Super ACR trigger? Does it need a new FRT? I am sorry Rick, but it is preposterous to claim that the law says we cant make drop in/bolt on accessories for a firearm so long as we are not altering its function illegally.

 

[bcbravo2zero]

That would mean the RCMP would get another kick at the cat to reclassify it as an AR variant.
I fought VERY hard for several years to get the NR status on these rifles and so many guys seem to want to quickly discard the effort and risk making these rifles into a restricted AR variants?

Not surprising...

I really like the idea of bringing down the price to compete with the Tavor, etc
I wanted a Varmint when it was announced but the price was a bit too steep (I know it's full of high quality bits, but still...) so a lower priced gun would be tempting.

BTW, your 10 round mags are awesome.

 

[rally guy]

So couple years ago i bought a colt le 6920 magpul edition, on the registration it was only mark "le 6920" . So in all intensive perpose it is a le6920 there is no "mp" anywhere. But since they put magpul on it they advertise it as a le6920"mp".


So is something like this douable? I am well aware of the Spartan debacle.

 

[Gundoggy]

If the savings was only $500-$600 I would just pay that and get a match grade barrel. Not really saving much, so might as well get the performance.

 

[JToews]

Interested

 

[p.Rundle]

You need an AK then

I know...god...wouldn't that be the dream

 

[VinnyQC]

If the savings was only $500-$600 I would just pay that and get a match grade barrel. Not really saving much, so might as well get the performance.

^^What he says.

The MV is pretty much the result of being a canadian gun made in canada by canadians for canadians. It's kind of the gun version of a maple-syrup-powered-beaver singing Rush. I don't see cheapening it to steal a few market shares from the Tavor and the XCR as a great move. I'd understand if you could get the price down to sub-1200$ and compete with restricted AR-15, then the playing field would be in your favor, but saving 500$ on a 3300-4000$ firearm? I just don't see it. Profit margins will compress, it'll take market shares from the real MV too, and it'll introduce the thought of a "cheap" ATRS firearm. All that without taking a run at the gigantic AR15 market.

Given the choice, I'd make something completely different to take a run at the 1500-2200$ market, like a bulpup, or something totally crazy such as a semi-automatic 300WSM with AICS magazine. That would require a new FRT, but wouldn't endanger the MH and the MV. But a 223 semi-auto that cost over 2000$ who's only benefit compared to an AR-15 is being NR is too much imho. The moment someone comes up with a mass-produced AR180b that can more or less shoot straight and cost less than 1000$, that project will be dead on its track.

 

[b_w.]

I like the idea. 20 inch light chrome barrel, maybe not pencil barrel, but nice and handy. Given that this is not an off the shelf barrel, any profile should be doable. I would prefer no furniture so I can add my own . If you have to include a hand guard hopefully it can be a decent 15 inch slim profile one that people are not just going to rip off and throw out. I dont care if its key mod, m lok or just plain.

Will the Timney trigger function with cheap ammo? I wouldn't feel bad running plinking ammo through a chrome barrel.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

So couple years ago i bought a colt le 6920 magpul edition, on the registration it was only mark "le 6920" . So in all intensive perpose it is a le6920 there is no "mp" anywhere. But since they put magpul on it they advertise it as a le6920"mp".


So is something like this douable? I am well aware of the Spartan debacle.

It certainly is do-able and we did ponder on it. The "spartan debacle" is precisely why we don't want to offer the feds any opportunity.

 

[Animatronic Fireman]

Getting this or a MH to 2K would definitely have me interested but I realize that would be tough and may not be realistic.

 

[CBR600]

A VERY valid concern, hence our floating the question here. The upper and lower would be identical, we are not making a "new" model, simply offering the ability to own one of our rifles with a cheaper barrel and not having any options to choose from. In vehicle terms, GM makes a base model truck. It has rubber floor matts, plastic upholstery, AM/FM radio only, power nothing yet still wears the same badge. The price difference between GMC Sierra 1500 and a Denali 1500 is over $30K, but I know exactly what you are meaning. The price differential will not be huge, probably 5 or 6 hundred dollars.

I say leave things the way they are. I own both a MV and MH, I paid a premium for premium parts and name. If you make a cheapo version it will just muddy the water, plus your demand is still way higher than your supply which is a good thing. This is a pay to play hobby and for a premium product, it will obviously demand a premium price.

Like Rolex, making a $500 watch. People who want a Rolex will pay the $5K plus, and do so for the quality and prestige.

Just IMHO

 

[CBR600]

But integral in what essence? The answer is that itis integral because no other trigger works with it out of the box due to the MV lacking the second pin hole..

To me it seems like this issue mirrors the idea of the pistol mag issue, where people are not modifying there mags to hold ten rounds, but rather modifying their rifles to accept pre-existing pistol mags (Examples include: SKS, VZ58, Swiss Arms, etc.). However in the case of the MV trigger, the controlled and FRT classed part is the lower and how it interfaces with the trigger, and mates with the upper. I am not purposing any changes to the lower whatsoever but rather designing a little chunk of aluminum that one could install a non timney in (essentially making it a "drop in" trigger) that only uses one trigger pin in the lower, same as the Timney currently does. I essence, if changeing this alters the frt, than so would mounting a flared magwell or furthermore.... putting in an aftermarket BCG, or changing the design of the charging handle.

Point is, the Timney is listed in the report as a way or pointing out the lower's difference from an AR, as the MV differs by employing the use of a drop in trigger pack and a single trigger pin. The trigger housing upgrade is not permenant and would not alter the function of the rifle, nor alter the design of the firearm. Period.

My ACR has a Geissele SD-E in it. Not a Super ACR trigger? Does it need a new FRT? I am sorry Rick, but it is preposterous to claim that the law says we cant make drop in/bolt on accessories for a firearm so long as we are not altering its function illegally.

Do you own a MH or MV, do you have anything riding on the line? Do you have the $$$ invested in these guns like ATRS does? They are a manufacturer, if they say they don't feel comfortable making the change, that's their business and their RIGHT

If you think it is preposterous, then start your own company and make your own guns and change w.e you want on them.

 

[ATRS Shaun]

Do you own a MH or MV, do you have anything riding on the line? Do you have the $$$ invested in these guns like ATRS does? They are a manufacturer, if they say they don't feel comfortable making the change, that's their business and their RIGHT

If you think it is preposterous, then start your own company and make your own guns and change w.e you want on them.

He does indeed have one of each. There's other complexities to the aluminum insert idea that houses standard AR trigger components, because standard AR15 components are too wide. I've put more time and thought into that possibility than is healthy, and the only way is to actually modify the trigger components.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

But integral in what essence? The answer is that itis integral because no other trigger works with it out of the box due to the MV lacking the second pin hole..

To me it seems like this issue mirrors the idea of the pistol mag issue, where people are not modifying there mags to hold ten rounds, but rather modifying their rifles to accept pre-existing pistol mags (Examples include: SKS, VZ58, Swiss Arms, etc.). However in the case of the MV trigger, the controlled and FRT classed part is the lower and how it interfaces with the trigger, and mates with the upper. I am not purposing any changes to the lower whatsoever but rather designing a little chunk of aluminum that one could install a non timney in (essentially making it a "drop in" trigger) that only uses one trigger pin in the lower, same as the Timney currently does. I essence, if changeing this alters the frt, than so would mounting a flared magwell or furthermore.... putting in an aftermarket BCG, or changing the design of the charging handle.

Point is, the Timney is listed in the report as a way or pointing out the lower's difference from an AR, as the MV differs by employing the use of a drop in trigger pack and a single trigger pin. The trigger housing upgrade is not permenant and would not alter the function of the rifle, nor alter the design of the firearm. Period.

My ACR has a Geissele SD-E in it. Not a Super ACR trigger? Does it need a new FRT? I am sorry Rick, but it is preposterous to claim that the law says we cant make drop in/bolt on accessories for a firearm so long as we are not altering its function illegally.

In a rationale world, you "may" be correct. However when a rifle gets prohib status simply by some symbol or words engraved onto a part of the rifle, do you really want to stir the pot?
James, Please drop it. we have beaten this to death, we are NOT going to risk our business, our rifles legal classification or our clients ability to own a rifle that has a very hard earned legal classification all because you have a problem with Timney triggers

 

[onetwentyish]

Do you own a MH or MV, do you have anything riding on the line? Do you have the $$$ invested in these guns like ATRS does? They are a manufacturer, if they say they don't feel comfortable making the change, that's their business and their RIGHT

If you think it is preposterous, then start your own company and make your own guns and change w.e you want on them.

Got close to 12k tied up between the 2 with out accessories, and the trigger is the single biggest reason they get shot the least.

My 2 most expensive rifles, have my 2 least favorite triggers.

 

[Brianma65]

What,don't you like about the triggers?

 

[CBR600]

Got close to 12k tied up between the 2 with out accessories, and the trigger is the single biggest reason they get shot the least.

My 2 most expensive rifles, have my 2 least favorite triggers.

I get your frustrations about the trigger, even though I don't mind it. I own both rifles also.

The problem is the RCMP make no sense when they make decisions. They just arbitrarily make leaps in logic and push it into law. Look at what happened at Wolverine.

If they don't want to to risk it, we should just accept it and not hassle them. Imagine they do change something and some RCMP pencil pusher deems all MH and MV prohib?? Then we both have over 10K in rifles become worthless.

They are already trying to make certain AR rifles prohib currently, better not risk it IMHO.

 

[onetwentyish]

In a rationale world, you "may" be correct. However when a rifle gets prohib status simply by some symbol or words engraved onto a part of the rifle, do you really want to stir the pot?
James, Please drop it. we have beaten this to death, we are NOT going to risk our business, our rifles legal classification or our clients ability to own a rifle that has a very hard earned legal classification all because you have a problem with Timney triggers

Respectfully Rick, I will not. Not because I dont respect your position, but because I can not live by what ifs, if I did I would not own these rigles as they already are. I am not asking you to manufacture this part necessarily as we have discussed this before, along with how Geissele blew you off.

Unfortunately you can not control what the aftermarket developes for your rifle, just like Bushmaster or IWI can not stop triggers being developed for their rifles. Worst case scenario, the lab would prohibit the part if they could "justify" doing such, and then it sounds like it is a matter that we should all get behind to fight.

There are alot of eager machinists I am willing to bet could easily produce and anodize the piece I have described. Just waiting on one to capitalize.

 

[6MT]

Respectfully Rick, I will not. Not because I dont respect your position, but because I can not live by what ifs, if I did I would not own these rigles as they already are. I am not asking you to manufacture this part necessarily as we have discussed this before, along with how Geissele blew you off.

Unfortunately you can not control what the aftermarket developes for your rifle, just like Bushmaster or IWI can not stop triggers being developed for their rifles. Worst case scenario, the lab would prohibit the part if they could "justify" doing such, and then it sounds like it is a matter that we should all get behind to fight.

There are alot of eager machinists I am willing to bet could easily produce and anodize the piece I have described. Just waiting on one to capitalize.

Sounds like you're ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. And undermine a whole bunch of owners and a business to boot. You just may become the peoria that you aspire to.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Respectfully Rick, I will not. Not because I dont respect your position, but because I can not live by what ifs, if I did I would not own these rigles as they already are. I am not asking you to manufacture this part necessarily as we have discussed this before, along with how Geissele blew you off.

Unfortunately you can not control what the aftermarket developes for your rifle, just like Bushmaster or IWI can not stop triggers being developed for their rifles. Worst case scenario, the lab would prohibit the part if they could "justify" doing such, and then it sounds like it is a matter that we should all get behind to fight.

There are alot of eager machinists I am willing to bet could easily produce and anodize the piece I have described. Just waiting on one to capitalize.

THAT is a whole different thing. For someone else to make an aftermarket part is not going to jeopardize the entire project I have created. The worst that could come of having an aftermarket part made is that the part would be the only part of the equation being scrutinized and YOUR specific rifles being examined. For us to make it clouds the issue, possibly to the point of further inspection which we want to avoid.

Trust me on this. I have been dealing with the SFSS and their predecessor since before you were even thought of, and have a pretty good understanding of how things REALLY work in this industry. My fan club, just like Mr. Hipwells in Ottawa within the RCMP groups is non existent, and to give them yet another opportunity to screw us all especially given the current regime, is not something I intend to do.