All depends what you consider "cheap" ammo. My M.H. loves Hirtenberger surplus .308 and at $.79/round I call that cheap. But the rifle loves it all the way out to 800m. But if you're talking "cheap" as in crappy quality, there might be something there.
Most accurate Semi-Auto 223 Non-Restricted
- Thread starter naktabar72
- Start date
All depends what you consider "cheap" ammo. My M.H. loves Hirtenberger surplus .308 and at $.79/round I call that cheap. But the rifle loves it all the way out to 800m. But if you're talking "cheap" as in crappy quality, there might be something there.
- Location
- calgary alberta
Why spread "rumors"? Who doe this benefit?
The fact is that the 4 lb match trigger in ANY AR type platform "may" not have enough firing pin inertia to set off the hard cupped primers found in some of the surplus machine gun ammo. ANY trigger other than the milspec 7 to 8 lb is susceptible to mis-fires due to light primer strikes on hard cup primers. Hard cup primers are used in machine gun ammo to prevent running on in rifles such as AR platform that employ free floating firing pins.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
Buying an expensive rifle, to toss cheap ammo in it is....stupid?
It pays to play.
I don't run junk ammo in my 1919A4 Browning. Steel-cased/copper washed norincrap ammo has no place in this weapon. (In my opinion.)
In the same way, I don't run plain surplus ball ammo through my Remington 700 Armament Tech rifle, it's Match ammo only.
You get the results you pay for, both in terms of rifle and ammunition performance. Put a good rifle with crap ammo, get crap results. Get a crap rifle with good ammo, you'll still get crap results. Get a crap rifle, feed it crap ammo, you'll get exactly what you pay for.
Take a precision machine, and feed it precision manufactured ammo, you'll get precise results.
NS
It pays to play.
I don't run junk ammo in my 1919A4 Browning. Steel-cased/copper washed norincrap ammo has no place in this weapon. (In my opinion.)
In the same way, I don't run plain surplus ball ammo through my Remington 700 Armament Tech rifle, it's Match ammo only.
You get the results you pay for, both in terms of rifle and ammunition performance. Put a good rifle with crap ammo, get crap results. Get a crap rifle with good ammo, you'll still get crap results. Get a crap rifle, feed it crap ammo, you'll get exactly what you pay for.
Take a precision machine, and feed it precision manufactured ammo, you'll get precise results.
NS
In My personal experience, I have not shot a sub MOA semi auto NR. But i havent shot the MH, Swiss Arms, or any HK.
I could not get 1" groups with the Tavor, XCR, ACR, Keltec, Type 97. But they dont really claim to be super acurate.
I could not get 1" groups with the Tavor, XCR, ACR, Keltec, Type 97. But they dont really claim to be super acurate.
Neither could I, But I shot standing at metal plates and they go ding every time. The most accurate one for me was my Type 97, to bad it was horrible in all other aspects so I sold it... lol...
Hopefully once my ACR is all set up it will give me 1- 1.5 inch groups with factory bulk ammo. The Tavor is still the most fun semi 556 I own.
Sooo if you put a heavier trigger in the MV, would you say it will cycle Wolf, Norinco, MFS, Barnual etc. ?? or at least some of them ?
If im going to dump $4000 bucks on a NR semi auto, id expect it to shoot excellent with excellent ammo, shoot good with good ammo, AND expect it to at least shoot/cycle the lower end stuff as well, but understandably DUH, not shoot it as accurately.
i have a few match AR triggers and light strikes are pretty rare, even with the x39 gun. With the exception of the 7.62x39 rifle, none of them see sh!t ammo though...
It doesn't make sense to buy a rifle (and spending the corresponding $$$ for it) that is capable of high accuracy just to pump cheap ammo that is not capable of obtaining that same level of accuracy IMHO, but it is your money.
If you like the Swiss Arms platform then keep your eyes open for a decent used one in the mid $2000 range. As I noted earlier there may not be many "sniper" versions around but there are lots of non restricted SA and clones kicking around. These rifles are nearly as accurate in the standard format and a good scope is well worth the effort to end up with a very accurate package that is similar to many higher end AR15 builds without being restricted. Phil.
jeepcjaholic
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
Is it not true they can be moa with a good trigger and match ammo? I also have one black flat top I picked up just because with a t97. From what I've read can be moa. As stated, have not played with mine yet. Also read they can be all over the board but this is due to old style trigger. Thing is also, by the time you buy it trigger it you will be on par with a Swiss. Wish I never sold my Swiss.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Mike has done the most inclusive ammo test I have seen to date, hornady amax did best at 1.5 moa I believe.
Bullpup forum is full of guys claiming moa with just about any bulk ammo. I have never seen any of them post 5 groups of 5. Lol
jeepcjaholic
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
I agree, don't run down a platform if you don't understand it. This is a specialty rifle built for hunting, light super accurate and over built. If you want to feed your pig crap ammo buy mil spec. This is ment for match grade or hand loads. Not a pit gun! I don't own one yet, but I've been following the progress of this rifle and I am very excited we have such talent in our country to come up with a platform like this and build it. Do I get a discount now?
jeepcjaholic
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
Thank you for the quick reply. I passed off the t97 to a bud unfired. Could not rap my head around it! But plan to keep the Tavor as more of a fun gun to mess around with. Never did I think it would be a sub moa platform but I hope I'm not running 5" 5 shoot groups!
Thats the way I see things.
Because of that I don't own a semi auto, hope to afford one someday. But if a rifle can't shoot sub-MOA then I am simply not interested.
Am keeping an eye on this thread though, I love the idea of an accurate semi-auto in the gopher patch or shooting coyotes.
Or if I got into an action shooting discipline, (one that required 2-4 MOA) then it might change. But with those specs, an SKS would have me covered.
So for now I stick to bolt actions.
jeepcjaholic
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
You have my curiosity know, why not a atrs? You do have a very good short list, just got me think, why not? Myself, I do have rifles for cheap ammo and run them and like them. They don't see paper just cans and crap when out with the kids on fun shoots. But I don't run surplus in my "higher end" rifles. That's just me. Alway like to hear what other people do with there's and what they expect from them.
well JP the ross rifle was pretty damn accurate, probably one of the most accurate rifles ever made, and well it lost interest really quickly.
Im willing to sacrifice accuracy if it means the rifke feeds, fires, ejects and repeats 99.99% of the time.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
