My Swiss Arms Story: UPDATE Post#162, My Theory on the Extraction Issues

It seems to me that there is an unusual amount of wear to the finish at the edge of your ejection port. My SA has at least as many rounds through it as yours does and shows nothing like that kind of erosion to the finish.

As I'm sure you know, those dings are caused by the case leaving the port. The case head hits the ejector as it travels rearward after ignition and is thrown to the right. It starts to spin as it travels and the case mouth hits the side of the action as it spins off out to the right. I suspect those deep dents in your cases are the result of the cases being slammed harder than normal into the botom rear edge of the port. This might result in the case momentum being redirected and the case rebounding back into the port instead of being thrown clear. The second ding near the base is the one that intrigues me. It's not normal to have two dings in the brass. This second ding suggests to me that the case is hitting something it's not supposed to, something that is causing it to return into the action. Maybe the top edge of the port?

Could harder than normal ejection cause the case to hit the back edge of the port harder and then bounce upwards contacting the top of the port and flip back inwards instead of continuing out right?

Did the Shooting Edge's smith check the diameter of the gas port on the barrel against spec? Maybe the port os too large and is putting too much gas back onto the piston.

Virtually every other moving part has been swapped out. What's left are the most likely candidates. Barrel gas port dimension and out of spec ejector are the two possibilities that spring to mind.
 
prairieguy said:
It seems to me that there is an unusual amount of wear to the finish at the edge of your ejection port. My SA has at least as many rounds through it as yours does and shows nothing like that kind of erosion to the finish.
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I have a classic green as well with about 1500 rounds through and it also looks similar to this one so I think it's normal. I only velcro'd/taped my brass deflector for a few weeks then decided it was silly.

*MALICE* said:
OP - do they happen to mention what happens when you run it on setting 2 for extended periods of time?
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It puts excessive wear on everything else in the rifle, and it kicks much harder, still controllable but much more recoil

prairieguy said:
Did the Shooting Edge's smith check the diameter of the gas port on the barrel against spec? Maybe the port os too large and is putting too much gas back onto the piston.
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I'm sure The Swiss Smith at the Shooting Edge did everything he was personally capable of doing here in Canada otherwise he wouldn't want to send it to Switzerland. If that means doing some or all all of the things you suggested I do not know.
 
If your rifle was going bang everytime for the 4500 first rounds (with 1failure) I can assume that it was on specs when new and everything was ok.

There is no that much parts in a rifle. The smith changed: gas block, piston, ejector, extractor and spring, gas regulator and swapped the bolt. So the only old parts are the receiver and barrel......

Is it possible that your chamber got some damage and retain the spent cartridge inside. When the cartridge finally eject, the bolt don't have enough energy to eject properly ??? If you cycle slowly your action, cases will do 180degree like your pics. When you put the setting on 2, there is much more energy to cycle properly... That's one option

Are the rails inside the receiver (not the bolt) showing some anormal wear. That can slow down the bolt and causing éjection problems.

Is your recoil spring too stiff ? Did you swapped it?

Is it possible that your hammer is hard to cengineerock back?? Something blocking it.... No need to be a big chunk of metal to interfer with proper functioning.

I'm not a gunsmith, but an industrial engineer. When you got problems you need to isolate the problem..... Swap bolt with a good one, swap lower, swap pieces with another one. And you will have a better idea about wich part is failing.

If I was you I would do a list about all parts in contact with this problem and swap one by one and you'll probably find the cause.
 
Would the turn around time to the Swiss be faster if they send just the upper? At that point it would just be machined parts and not a firearm.
 
GLOCK_PERFECTION said:
I'm not a gunsmith, but an industrial engineer. When you got problems you need to isolate the problem..... Swap bolt with a good one, swap lower, swap pieces with another one. And you will have a better idea about wich part is failing.

If I was you I would do a list about all parts in contact with this problem and swap one by one and you'll probably find the cause.
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Look man no offense meant at all, I legitimately don't want to be rude to you or anyone else who has commented, I appreciate all of the ideas, but the point of the thread was not to officially diagnose what is wrong with the rifle, or to evven ask CGN what they think is wrong, ideas are great and appreciated but people trying to source and solve the entire issue over a forum is ridiculous. If the Swiss Gun smith can't figure it out then I don't see how all of these CGNer's can without even seeing the gun.

I just wanted to share my story, and thought there would be people interested in hearing it, the gun is with the Shooting Edge and there trying to get it to Switzerland, I cannot try to change any of the pieces you suggested, and even if I had the gun I am not a gun smith or mechanical engineer and don't have a shop filed with tools or spare parts, so how would I go about getting all of these new pieces and trying them anyway.

Everyone has a genius answer that they figure no one else has thought of. Unless you have seen this exact malfunction occur before with a Swiss Arms rifle, and no what was happening and how it was fixed then I think the chances of thinking of something that Swiss Arms has not are pretty slim I would think.

Thank you for your input, I am positive all of our option's have been exhausted and that is why we're trying to get it to Switzerland. I wish they would just replace the upper and barrel, or the entire rifle, but obviously Swiss Arms won't foot the bill and you can't expect the Shooting edge to just "Give" me a $3500 rifle for free can you???

Thank you
 
Had a long response typed out but my computer crashed. The ejection port wear seems normal when compared to mine, and my black special also occasionall exhibits double dents on the brass case so I'll be following this thread. So far mine has had 2 Failures to Fire, both by the same user with the same ammo (WWB IIRC) and at this time it is the ammo that is suspected. 0 failures to feed/eject in ~1200 rounds.

With all the things that have been changed already I would suspect ejector wear or piston/tube wear.
 
diemaco said:
Had a long response typed out but my computer crashed. The ejection port wear seems normal when compared to mine, and my black special also occasionall exhibits double dents on the brass case so I'll be following this thread. So far mine has had 2 Failures to Fire, both by the same user with the same ammo (WWB IIRC) and at this time it is the ammo that is suspected. 0 failures to feed/eject in ~1200 rounds.

With all the things that have been changed already I would suspect ejector wear or piston/tube wear.
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Your failure's sound like an ammo issue to me. Did they go bang the second time through the rifle?

Seriously man, if your getting the double dent then you may only be a short time away from having this start happening with you. Have you had any of the double dented casings land short, like 2 -3 feet away instead of 15-20 feet forward and right of you?
 
Steve Janes said:
Everyone has a genius answer that they figure no one else has thought of. Unless you have seen this exact malfunction occur before with a Swiss Arms rifle, and 'know' what was happening and how it was fixed then I think the chances of thinking of something that Swiss Arms has not are pretty slim I would think.
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If you didn't want, and are not open to people suggesting solutions to your problem, your post serves nothing other than a pitty party.

Earlier in your thread someone suggested taking your rifle to Markus with The Calgary Shooting Center. I echo that suggestion. Before you send it off to Switzerland.
Nothing against Stephen, but Markus has considerable more experience.
If anyone short of the factory can come to a solution, my money would be on him.
 
Wow, I have been in love with my Swiss. This is the first post I've seen where the Swiss went to complete hell.

I guess any gun can fail. Serious bummer dude.

My plan? Buy another....for parts...I'll justify it to my wife by this very post. :p
 
beltfed said:
If you didn't want, and are not open to people suggesting solutions to your problem, your post serves nothing other than a pitty party.

Earlier in your thread someone suggested taking your rifle to Markus with The Calgary Shooting Center. I echo that suggestion. Before you send it off to Switzerland.
Nothing against Stephen, but Markus has considerable more experience.
If anyone short of the factory can come to a solution, my money would be on him.
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It has nothing to do with pitty, I just thought people would like to hear it that's all. I don't mind hearing suggestions, like you saying to try Marcus, good idea, I will talk with him, but I don't need the armchair gun smiths coming out of the wood work. Any reasonable suggestionswill be considered

Out of curiosity what makes everyone think Marcus will know more than the smith at the shooting edge, belt fed you say he is more experienced. Since the shooting edge isn't being paid for there work I would also think they would have suggested Marcus to try to.pass.it.off.to
 
Steve Janes said:
It has nothing to do with pitty, I just thought people would like to hear it that's all. I don't mind hearing suggestions, like you saying to try Marcus, good idea, I will talk with him, but I don't need the armchair gun smiths coming out of the wood work. Any reasonable suggestionswill be considered

Out of curiosity what makes everyone think Marcus will know more than the smith at the shooting edge, belt fed you say he is more experienced. Since the shooting edge isn't being paid for there work I would also think they would have suggested Marcus to try to.pass.it.off.to
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TSE and the other place are in competition with each other and I can't see either business sending customers, products, work etc, to the other place.

As for armchair gunsmiths... That's what this forum is for. Don't be upset. This is a normal reaction to your post. If you don't want to read the armchair gunsmith posts then skip them.

I think it's actually very nice that so many people on the forum took the time to consider your problem and try to help you.
 
00Buck said:
As for armchair gunsmiths... That's what this forum is for. Don't be upset. This is a normal reaction to your post. If you don't want to read the armchair gunsmith posts then skip them.

I think it's actually very nice that so many people on the forum took the time to consider your problem and try to help you.
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I am not upset, I appreciate ALL of the reasonable suggestions, I have sent e-mails to Marcus from the Shooting center and hopefully some good comes of it.

With regard to the Armchair gunsmithing, most people (NOT ALL) do not take into consideration what is required simply to attempt what they are suggesting, I think if they considered what was involved in some of the things there suggesting, then perhaps they wouldn't have suggested it. Forgive my frustration please, I have gotten about 10 different people PMing me to tell me it's this thing or that thing, one guy said "This has got to be the CanAm mags, that's why I only use OEM mags", another person said it had to be the ammo and began trying to name the ammo I was shooting, I appreciate it I really do seriously, but unfortunately it is none of these things, most of the things (not every single one, but most)have been tried several times over, I wish it was, I really wish it was something that small and simple and someone on here could solve it that easily
 
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Just went through a batch of ~200 used brass and discovered four cases with double dents. Perhaps it's a coincidence but every single case with the double dent is Federal (from the american eagle 223). The 200 brass are ~ 60/40 RP/FC. I wish I had a chrony so I could investigate a little more.
 
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