You are absolutely right! I would expect Norinko to produce the same gun with varying tolerances but CZ...no way!
New CZ Shadow owner. Is mine broken?
- Thread starter JeffFromCanada
- Start date
You are absolutely right! I would expect Norinko to produce the same gun with varying tolerances but CZ...no way!
It's called tolerance stacking and it happens all the time. It isn't considered to be out of spec as they aren't meant to be used when the hammer is down. I'd spend the money on a competition hammer if it doesn't have one, lighter springs, spare mags etc. I run the flush safeties on all my Shadows and never ever ever use them. It's pointless on a DA/SA gun unless you intend you use the SA only. But even then, the fitting that resulted in this is a non issue.
Oh and a comp hammer may also alleviate the "problem" if it has a comp hammer, then likely the safeties were improperly fitted by the previous owner. still a non issue.
Oh and a comp hammer may also alleviate the "problem" if it has a comp hammer, then likely the safeties were improperly fitted by the previous owner. still a non issue.
You obviously know more on this subject that me
I wouldn't be happy if I went to a LGS and handled a few new CZ guns of the same model that acted differently from one and other. In fact, it would be off putting and not what I would expect from CZ.
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WRONG.....95% of semi autos that have safetys most definitely will engage with the hammer dropped
Watch "safety cz 75 sp 01 shadow" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/VS89gR8P7DM
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He probably has more rounds through a shadow then everybody else on this forum combined.
Below I have cut and paste Angus Hobdell's description of the safety working on shadow style pistols.
Please look at Page 9 of the manual.
This talks about the correct working of the Single Action Manual Safety.
Engaging the Safety
Push the safety up to the Safety-On position (Fig.5) until the red warning dot is covered.
The safety in this position blocks the trigger mechanism and slide, thus preventing the pulling of the trigger and operating the slide.
Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide.
In this case, however, it is not recommended to engage the safety because the trigger mechanism might be damaged when cocking the hammer by force.
Besides the method previously described it is possible to put the pistol into a safety mode and still be ready to fire immediately:
Load the pistol.
Grasp the grip, POINT IN A SAFE DIRECTION. With a thumb press on the grooved area (thumb piece) of the hammer, pull the trigger and release the hammer slowly forward (Fig. 6) until it rests on the action or safety notch of the hammer.
Release the trigger.
Practice this operation very carefully to avoid an accidental discharge! We strongly recommend to practice this operation beforehand wit h the pistol unloaded!
In this state the pistol is safe for all normal handling and at the same time ready for immediate use.
Please remember that the safest way to secure a pistol is to unload it and store it in a safe place!
This indicates that it is indeed possible to engage the Single Action saftey in the Hammer Fully Down and Half #### positions, but that the pistol is not designed to work that way and that either puling the trigger or thumb cocking the pistol with the safety engaged can cause damage to the internal components.
Please look at Page 9 of the manual.
This talks about the correct working of the Single Action Manual Safety.
Engaging the Safety
Push the safety up to the Safety-On position (Fig.5) until the red warning dot is covered.
The safety in this position blocks the trigger mechanism and slide, thus preventing the pulling of the trigger and operating the slide.
Since the trigger mechanism has been specifically adjusted, it is possible to move the safety onto the "SAFE" position even if the hammer is placed on the safety notch or leaned against the slide.
In this case, however, it is not recommended to engage the safety because the trigger mechanism might be damaged when cocking the hammer by force.
Besides the method previously described it is possible to put the pistol into a safety mode and still be ready to fire immediately:
Load the pistol.
Grasp the grip, POINT IN A SAFE DIRECTION. With a thumb press on the grooved area (thumb piece) of the hammer, pull the trigger and release the hammer slowly forward (Fig. 6) until it rests on the action or safety notch of the hammer.
Release the trigger.
Practice this operation very carefully to avoid an accidental discharge! We strongly recommend to practice this operation beforehand wit h the pistol unloaded!
In this state the pistol is safe for all normal handling and at the same time ready for immediate use.
Please remember that the safest way to secure a pistol is to unload it and store it in a safe place!
This indicates that it is indeed possible to engage the Single Action saftey in the Hammer Fully Down and Half #### positions, but that the pistol is not designed to work that way and that either puling the trigger or thumb cocking the pistol with the safety engaged can cause damage to the internal components.
Yes, him 100,000 rounds give or take...me none. I will eat every flake of my humble pie on this subject. All I really know about the Shadow is that I wish I had one, I really want one and I must get me one.
I'll flog mine off to you if you wanna deal with the problem lol
I understand why people don't like this kind of thing with a new gun, tolerance stacking is off putting, but at the same time when you consider how many of the guns are made and how many of the parts are produced etc etc, it happens. It's possible CZ would warranty it, maybe. And yeah a cage is what, $30? But that doesn't always cure it, sometimes it's safeties, sometimes it's hammers, and other times it's sears. Like I said, if it's has a regular hammer, the money is better spent on a competition hammer and that might cure the problem. I've got 6 Shadows right now, 3 Canadian Shadowmates, the top ones, and 3 regular ones that have been upgraded with all the bits. My original Shadow the safeties used to be able to be put on when hammer down. But that's because I fit them with a Leatherman file in a dark lounge/attic area upstairs at the Althansky Palace in Znojmo, Czech, after getting them from Milan. Angus Hobdell and I sat there, drinking, and fitting them, well, I did the filing he just made crass remarks. I filed too much, on the sear actually, and that resulted in the safeties going on with the hammer down, I also took too much off the flat spot on the left side safety post, that the right side safety connects too, which resulted in that safety kind of flopping around. I replaced them and those are now my emergency backup backup safeties. I should just toss them.
As for round count, 150,000+ rounds through my original Shadow before it became a dedicated .22 and similar through 4 of the others. My new match gun only has about 30,000 rounds through it.
As for round count, 150,000+ rounds through my original Shadow before it became a dedicated .22 and similar through 4 of the others. My new match gun only has about 30,000 rounds through it.
Your insight is appreciated and your experience impressive. Question. After how many rounds does a factory shadow become entirely replaced by replacenent parts. Is there anything on your first that's original?
I've never replaced a barrel, and the hammer, when done, was done before the first shot was fired. Same with mainsprings, which I've never changed after that. Recoil springs I'm lazy about and while it's recommended to do at 5000 rounds I wait until the gun starts to be sluggish going back into battery and do it, sometimes that's at 10,000 rounds. I've replaced slidestops on almost all of the guns except my current match gun, it's still running the one I put in it when I got it last year. (I run Rami slidestops as they are lower profile), I am a firm believe in the shockbuffs, which are the only thing that is replaced regularly outside of the fiber in the front sight. I've replaced 2 or 3 broken trigger springs, maybe 5 extractors, 2 because of case head separations from either a bad load or a bad case, and with those 2 I also had to replace the extractor spring and the pin that holds it in. I also throw in 85 Combat triggers right at the start and now Short reset discos at the start as well. I've never worn out a hammer or a sear. I have broken 3 front sights, but that was ages ago. I do my mags every year (match mags) and spring changes every year in my practice mags (I have #### tons of mags now). I took the dedicated 22 out last fall and threw the original 9mm slide and barrel on it to test it against my newest gun. Groups were about 35% bigger and the velocity was pretty close. The gun is definitely looser, but still shoots good. We are thinking about shooting it to failure this fall, literally, how many rounds shot as fast as we can, until it fails. But I'm not sure I want to destroy it that much lol.
Now all that said, I've got a friend who had to replace two slides with less than 5000 rounds through them as the spring box broke off. I've had other guys crack frames, break rear sights, break lots of front sights, and of course slidestops. I've probably been just plain old lucky with my 6 that they've gone this long with no issues (knock on wood). But the guys I shoot with in Europe, they've seen similar performance as me. I know one guy who only just got a new gun, his match gun was his practice gun, and I think he got it in 2006. last count was around 250,000 rounds through it. But he did spring changes regularly, including the mainspring. And cleaned and lubed it like it was his life. I'm lazy, even my match gun doesn't get cleaned more than twice a year. It gets lube before a match and that's it. Typically 10-15000 rounds before I clean it, and the barrel double that (bore). I don't recommend that, but that's what I do. My AR is worse, I think it's only been cleaned twice in it's life and neither times by me.
Now all that said, I've got a friend who had to replace two slides with less than 5000 rounds through them as the spring box broke off. I've had other guys crack frames, break rear sights, break lots of front sights, and of course slidestops. I've probably been just plain old lucky with my 6 that they've gone this long with no issues (knock on wood). But the guys I shoot with in Europe, they've seen similar performance as me. I know one guy who only just got a new gun, his match gun was his practice gun, and I think he got it in 2006. last count was around 250,000 rounds through it. But he did spring changes regularly, including the mainspring. And cleaned and lubed it like it was his life. I'm lazy, even my match gun doesn't get cleaned more than twice a year. It gets lube before a match and that's it. Typically 10-15000 rounds before I clean it, and the barrel double that (bore). I don't recommend that, but that's what I do. My AR is worse, I think it's only been cleaned twice in it's life and neither times by me.
mikeydagunz
Regular
- Location
- Right side of Canada
I have a CZ-SP01 Shadow Canadian that I just pulled out of my safe just for your post. My pistol will not let me engage the safety when the hammer is not cocked back fully. On half-####, i can engage the safety and when I pull the trigger, the hammer moves a little bit but will not go all the way back. It seems that your pistol has been tampered with in some way. I am NOT a gunsmith, I am just letting you now what mine does. I would ask the seller if any modification have been done. Your pistol should not let the safety go on when the hammer is down.
Hope this helps.
I'm okay with it. It still passes the safety test for IPSC.
Pistolwhiptricks
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Mississauga
Just checked my Shadow and 75 Shadowline to confirm my original post and they both operate like this as well.
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
He's talking about CZ specifically, not semi auto's in general, and no, the safety shouldn't engage, just like on a 1911, if the hammer is down. But as stated it's not a huge problem for the intended use. but i'd fix it if it where mine, i just figure things should work as their meant to.
