New daily driver from Shot Show

Epoxy7 said:
Don’t worry we all know you “Really have no clue...” it’s obvious. Once you’ve done policing for a few years then come back and it will be interesting to see what your response is. As it stands now you don’t know what you’re posting about. You’re the equivalent of an anti firearm person who has never handled a gun, spouting off about their “opinion”.

So much entitlement, so little to back it up with.

Man but you are a tough guy!! Good for you man, good for you. I dont think this was about them consulting with me. I would assume you are doing some mghty policing



The good news is if they are required they will order them! Without consulting you!
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Man are you ever a tough dude. Im scared bud. Really scared. This wasnt about me wanting to be consulted about anything, now was it. I would assume you are doing policing all the time and that makes you such a rambo! Guess you are just doing lotsa policing under the belt right?
You are such a child. Sure hope you are not a cop, cause heaven help us with your mighty attitude.
 
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Actually, they do occasionally come in handy. Several years ago in Calgary, there was a chap holed up inside a garage with a repair pit firing at passersby and then later at police. The Calgary police were not able to take him down until they borrowed an APC from Currie Barracks and flattened the garage.
 
IEDs? ?? Got ya covered! 20170727_181127.jpg:)Ti
 

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For anyone offering an opinion on the matter, do any of you have actual facts as to how many times your local ERT /SWAT/TAC team deploys every year and how many times an armoured vehicle is used?

What is the threshold to determine when an agency is allowed to buy one? 12 dead cops in their jurisdiction? 10? or how about 3 killed and 5 wounded within the previous 5 years? Why should you have to wait to have someone get killed to proactively try and prevent it? When I used to work in the back country and we clued in we were doing something dangerous or there was a safer way to do it, guess what? We stopped doing it the dangerous way and started doing it the safer way.
 
Cappy said:
For anyone offering an opinion on the matter, do any of you have actual facts as to how many times your local ERT /SWAT/TAC team deploys every year and how many times an armoured vehicle is used?
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I was going to post about this topic. I know all the deployments I've heard of simply through work chatter, I've never read any national news stories about the armoured vehicles being used. It's one of those things that happens more than you realize, and quite simply more anti-climatic when it is used. No big shootouts, police shot, etc. Just ends quietly and doesn't make for a gripping news report.

They are necessary, and if your police force is buying a new one every year, yeah that's probably out to lunch. If they're getting second hand vehicles from the military for pennies on the dollar, or get one every decade or so, what's the big deal? They aren't driving them around with cannon and machine gun turrets. They're used as rolling cover and brute force entry tools. They aren't out pulling over vehicles writing tickets, or going through timmies drive through every few hours.

Just because someone personally can't see a use, doesn't mean it doesn't have one. As was posted earlier, you may not see a need for owning a handgun, doesn't mean you're right.

And as far as armed standoffs, they happen regularly. Especially around reserves with gang problems. We get them all the time. But again, nothing so exciting that it makes the news.
 
tharkhold said:
Jeesus... a vehicle like that with "police" on it... where is society heading? :(
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It’s really cool. Nothing new, in a sense.
There’s always been a need for crowd control, etc. This is new tech. And casualties to the “good guys” are not very acceptable.
I watched a line of body-armoured mounted cops wielding long batons charge a huge crowd of soccer rioters in England in 1974.
I’d watched the rioters bashing each other with bricks, sticks, fists and feet before the cops moved in.
It was positively medieval. 1970s British society was pretty gritty.
I bet the rioters would’ve preferred getting hosed down.
 
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Jon. said:
I was going to post about this topic. I know all the deployments I've heard of simply through work chatter, I've never read any national news stories about the armoured vehicles being used. It's one of those things that happens more than you realize, and quite simply more anti-climatic when it is used. No big shootouts, police shot, etc. Just ends quietly and doesn't make for a gripping news report.

They are necessary, and if your police force is buying a new one every year, yeah that's probably out to lunch. If they're getting second hand vehicles from the military for pennies on the dollar, or get one every decade or so, what's the big deal? They aren't driving them around with cannon and machine gun turrets. They're used as rolling cover and brute force entry tools. They aren't out pulling over vehicles writing tickets, or going through timmies drive through every few hours.

Just because someone personally can't see a use, doesn't mean it doesn't have one. As was posted earlier, you may not see a need for owning a handgun, doesn't mean you're right.

And as far as armed standoffs, they happen regularly. Especially around reserves with gang problems. We get them all the time. But again, nothing so exciting that it makes the news.
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Nice one.
 
Saskatoon Police have one similar to that. I have never seen it outside but I did some work at the station and it was parked in the parking garage. I don't have a problem with it, when police have to enter into a situation where there is a potential they could get shot, I want them protected. Nobody shoots at me while I do my job, if they were, I would want something similar myself.
 
bcbravo2zero said:
Nice one.
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The issue has been a long running one (I vaguely recall in my youth (what's a yoot?) reading about it in MacLeans (so we are talking mid 80's)) about how police forces who have an ERT will tend to utilize them in situations that don't necessarily warrant them and in multiple cases it has had the opposite effect where it ended up escalating the situation rather than shutting it down. Quick Google search finds it is still being asked (There are tons of links about it).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/06/20/the-overuse-of-s-w-a-t-teams/#58bc02fddc86

Another example of escalation in the display of force is protests, I don't know if you recall but early 2000's pretty much the defacto procedure was to have the full riot gear show up immediately at protests. It ended up escalating the situation to point of people dying. Somebody stepped back and realized what had changed. I saw this first hand at the "take the hill" protest in Ottawa in 2002 as the building I was in was one of them targeted. From the protesters point of view of the protesters the only police presence they saw was a helicopter overhead and Police blocking traffic. What they didn't see was the several hundred cops in riot gear tracking them in parallel about a block or so away. This was very shortly after the G8 summit in Italy where one or two people died and there were serious concerns about the same thing happening. The police came out ahead of time stating that they were not deploying riot police (they were there just not in their face) which actually deescalated the situation before it even started.

Granted the mob mentality is a different mindset that an armed standoff but if pushed hard enough both can blow up in your face.

Essentially there is a time and a place for certain equipment and with budget crunches, police may end up due to pressure to justify the expenditures using said equipment which may actually be a detriment to the situation. The problem is you have different pressures being placed on them and you hope they will use the best judgement but as has been seen the impact after the fact is that even though at the time it could have been deemed warranted it may have been the catalyst in something worse. That all said the police are mostly aware of this up here but whether or not they are truly necessary? That is hard to truly say, If there is a situation and goes sideways and one wasn't there and should have been, well then it was necessary. If it was there and the situation (situation dependent ) comes out fine, how do you know that it truly was necessary and that it would have been resolved fine? Moncton would be considered anecdotal evidence and considered a one off situation but yes in that situation it comes down to it would have been needed, that isn't enough justification for spending a couple hundred grand on a vehicle (plus yearly maintenance (I think I read over 50k US a year for an MRAP) for some backwater town. We don't have these situations happening every other day.

All that said up here Law Enforcement seems to have more restraint especially outside the big cities with buying the toys than they do in the US. When you hear about a town of like 10,000 in Idaho getting an MRAP you know something is wrong in their allocation of funding (in this case they had got it for a dollar but the maintenance was going to be the big stink I think they kept it for a year and got rid of it).
 
Epoxy7 said:
They use them as portable cover. It’s defensive. It’s kind of nice to have cover rather than be exposed. I’ve also seen them used to ram vehicles from fleeing suspects after an armed standoff. Worked great. Stopped the guy from getting out and being a threat to the general public.

You’re I don’t see hundreds of cops dying and plea to perception already cost the RCMP a conviction after Moncton when they delayed the carbine roll out due to optics rather than reality. That poor decision making did cost officers lives and the organization was found guilty for not providing the necessary equipment/training.

Here’stage irony as I saw many of the same arguments regarding carbines as I see here. Yet many of us on this site have owned them as civilians for ages. They are practically mil surp.
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Actually, they already are..

https://gunworx.ca/products/surplus-diemaco-c8-upper-14-5-barrel-inc-bolt-carrier
 
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