Once you have a look on site we could prioritize where the target trolies could go and build that one first. Back stops that could work are 700 and shoot from 200 and work your way down range or 914 or 1000 as these three could allow to have people maning the targets be hind the back stop and hopefully shoot from each back stop and work you way down range
New Long Range construction started
- Thread starter toofar2late
- Start date
Once you have a look on site we could prioritize where the target trolies could go and build that one first. Back stops that could work are 700 and shoot from 200 and work your way down range or 914 or 1000 as these three could allow to have people maning the targets be hind the back stop and hopefully shoot from each back stop and work you way down range
For DCRA service rifle, there needs to be a set of target trolleys for all firing positions, with a max distance of 500m.
And there needs to be firing mounds at 100m increments, to 100m from the butts.
Any of the guys that shoot sniper/precision/target/F-class want to chime in as to the max distances for those disciplines....
And there needs to be firing mounds at 100m increments, to 100m from the butts.
Any of the guys that shoot sniper/precision/target/F-class want to chime in as to the max distances for those disciplines....
Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
Most ranges that shoot DCRA TR and FClass are on DND land and now days, the DND figures they only need short ranges and 600m is max. Even some of the ranges in Ont that did go past 600 have been shortened up! DCRA ranges, some are in Meters, some in yards. Basic layout for metric is 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800 and 900 meters. If in yards, you always have a 300m, so 300m, 500 yds, 600yd, 800yds, 900yds, 1000yds. North star in Sask also has 1100 and 1200 yds, but does not have many matches that include these last two yardages. The farthest shot at NorthStar aka Nokomis can be had from the properly line, 1640 yds.
Someone says the pipe over pole is best... (Sacromento CA)
Greased pipe and diesel as lude, messy, 6x6 frame system, approx 30" apart
SPRA version of "sliders", snowmobile bogie wheels running on pipe (no grease needed)
6x6 frame system, approx 12" apart (tried to get two in were one cantilever was before)
How the bogie wheels ride on the poles
Sliders or pipe over pole has the advantage of easy of operation and a standard target weight. Cantilevers that have different target widths has different target weights, and you have to adjust the counter weight to get the one finger operation. Myself, when I go to practice with a buddy, we use the sliders, easier to operate.
For service rifle, you should also have 50yd, 100yd and 200 yd I would think.
ETargets have pros and cons. Pros are probbaly cheaper over time vs a paid target crew; fast since you see the hit within seconds. Cons, too many batteriers to keep charged, from the server, to the radios, to the viewing devices; the further you are away from center, the less accurate the shown hit becomes; only reads supersonic shots; the mics can get hit and they are around $200 each; you still need a tech in the butts to change wear centers and keep everything working and possibly change the odd mic; many wires hang from the frame to connect to a radio to transmit the signal to the server on the line transmitting in WIFI to the guys viewing devices; most ranges face north so the sun makes the viewers a PIA to see; not everyone will have a smart phone so you may have to supply them in a competition to those people; no security to stop someone from adjusting the X-Y (calibration system) during a match since you all access the same WIFI connection. IMO, they are great for practice or TR with a larger V/5 ring but not accurate enough for FClass, were an 1/8" make you a losser or a winner. Some etargets are better than others, with more mics and drum skin type targets, but are more expense too. IMO, there is too much that can go wrong with etargets, target pullers once trained properly are fast and accurate. BTW, our pullers at SPRA ARE the best in North America. They are a biathlon group we pay to pull targets, so being shooters, they know their job is important to the competitors and they are never wrong, you will never win a challenge for a higher value with this crew. Yes, you may challenge sometimes and win for a value indicator not agreeing with the shot indicator, but never for a higher value.
Keith
SPRA Secretary and FClass shooter
http://www.saskrifle.ca
Someone says the pipe over pole is best... (Sacromento CA)
Greased pipe and diesel as lude, messy, 6x6 frame system, approx 30" apart
SPRA version of "sliders", snowmobile bogie wheels running on pipe (no grease needed)
6x6 frame system, approx 12" apart (tried to get two in were one cantilever was before)
How the bogie wheels ride on the poles
Sliders or pipe over pole has the advantage of easy of operation and a standard target weight. Cantilevers that have different target widths has different target weights, and you have to adjust the counter weight to get the one finger operation. Myself, when I go to practice with a buddy, we use the sliders, easier to operate.
For service rifle, you should also have 50yd, 100yd and 200 yd I would think.
ETargets have pros and cons. Pros are probbaly cheaper over time vs a paid target crew; fast since you see the hit within seconds. Cons, too many batteriers to keep charged, from the server, to the radios, to the viewing devices; the further you are away from center, the less accurate the shown hit becomes; only reads supersonic shots; the mics can get hit and they are around $200 each; you still need a tech in the butts to change wear centers and keep everything working and possibly change the odd mic; many wires hang from the frame to connect to a radio to transmit the signal to the server on the line transmitting in WIFI to the guys viewing devices; most ranges face north so the sun makes the viewers a PIA to see; not everyone will have a smart phone so you may have to supply them in a competition to those people; no security to stop someone from adjusting the X-Y (calibration system) during a match since you all access the same WIFI connection. IMO, they are great for practice or TR with a larger V/5 ring but not accurate enough for FClass, were an 1/8" make you a losser or a winner. Some etargets are better than others, with more mics and drum skin type targets, but are more expense too. IMO, there is too much that can go wrong with etargets, target pullers once trained properly are fast and accurate. BTW, our pullers at SPRA ARE the best in North America. They are a biathlon group we pay to pull targets, so being shooters, they know their job is important to the competitors and they are never wrong, you will never win a challenge for a higher value with this crew. Yes, you may challenge sometimes and win for a value indicator not agreeing with the shot indicator, but never for a higher value.
Keith
SPRA Secretary and FClass shooter
http://www.saskrifle.ca
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Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
toofar2late, a few drawings 
Dimensions will vary depending on how high you have to lift them in the air etc.
These were the first design, before we went to two counter weights per target and the bogie wheels.
Dimensions will vary depending on how high you have to lift them in the air etc.These were the first design, before we went to two counter weights per target and the bogie wheels.
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Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
These are the final ones, using drill pipe.
As you can see, you need to remove a little dirt, about 6" from the front edge of the cat walk for the target carrier (hair under 26" high) and counter weights to go down far enough too.
This is the old design but it shows you some other things you may need
The two dark green cross members in the drawing above do not exist in our design now using poles, aka drill pipe. Just one at the very top to keep the poles from moving apart and to hold the pulley on each side that allow the counter weights to go up and down. The whole system is held on by the two attachments at the bottom of each pole and also at the top, running from the top cross member to the top of the overhead cover. By having two counter weights per frame, the target will never swing left/right and bind.
The sides are poles, not channel iron as seen in dark green. See the picture in post 83, 2 frames use 3 drill poles, sharing a center pole. The dark green channels are the drill pipe now, and we fabricated a pc of metal to weld onto the box frame (dark blue) and then welded round pcs to hold bolt the bogie wheels on to this pc of steel, one on each side of the pipe and this box frame holds the wood carrier via drawing 990119 with 4 and 5 holding the wood frame to the dark blue steel frame. The poles are attached to the concrete, drilled holes and added threaded rod held with water proof Epoxy to the concrete and nuts. We have yet to replace a bogie wheel and they still move with one finger. When it is time to replace one, we back out the bolt holding the bogie wheel to the fab pc of steel and blue frame, and tap it off, add a new one and re tighten the bolt, done. We also made gigs to cut the holes in the chloroplast and also one to make new side wood holders (2x4 cut in half) that fit over the pegs. Only metal in this thing are a few screws in the corner braces so no worries of someone operating it getting splash back from a bullet off steel. We had limited room and we put in two frames were one cantilever existed before. I like it myself. If we did all our bays, we would have 12 frames, but some of the old TR guys don't, they say it gives a poor sight picture since it is 6x6 and not 6x8 like they are use to a LR. With the closeness of these 2 frames, you would always hit paper, maybe not yours, but the one next door and you can correct off that, vs a total miss that is undictatable ie, off target and in the dirt somewhere. The 2x6 that has the pegs to hold the chloroplast is set in the skinny way so you get less hits on it and it also has a higher strength in the wind. These frames do not wave in the wind, like the big 6'x8' cantilever sails. Less force on them since they are smaller and the frames do not twist either. A 6'x8' target has almost twice the load force on it in a wind vs a 6'x6'. We tested these before installing them by tacking them to a 3/4 ton rear bumper and driving down a little used paved road to simulate a 40-50 mph north/south full value wind on them and operated them up and down to make sure everything worked as designed without any binding of the blue frame or wheels etc.
Yes, maybe over designed compared to the Sacramento type that use pipe over poles held on the ground with concrete but they have lasted for 3-4 years now and have been covered right up with snow each winter and we have done zero adjustments come spring. The only things that break are the pegs and the split 2x4 that holds the target to the 2x6 from a odd bullet hit
As you can see, you need to remove a little dirt, about 6" from the front edge of the cat walk for the target carrier (hair under 26" high) and counter weights to go down far enough too.
This is the old design but it shows you some other things you may need
The two dark green cross members in the drawing above do not exist in our design now using poles, aka drill pipe. Just one at the very top to keep the poles from moving apart and to hold the pulley on each side that allow the counter weights to go up and down. The whole system is held on by the two attachments at the bottom of each pole and also at the top, running from the top cross member to the top of the overhead cover. By having two counter weights per frame, the target will never swing left/right and bind.
The sides are poles, not channel iron as seen in dark green. See the picture in post 83, 2 frames use 3 drill poles, sharing a center pole. The dark green channels are the drill pipe now, and we fabricated a pc of metal to weld onto the box frame (dark blue) and then welded round pcs to hold bolt the bogie wheels on to this pc of steel, one on each side of the pipe and this box frame holds the wood carrier via drawing 990119 with 4 and 5 holding the wood frame to the dark blue steel frame. The poles are attached to the concrete, drilled holes and added threaded rod held with water proof Epoxy to the concrete and nuts. We have yet to replace a bogie wheel and they still move with one finger. When it is time to replace one, we back out the bolt holding the bogie wheel to the fab pc of steel and blue frame, and tap it off, add a new one and re tighten the bolt, done. We also made gigs to cut the holes in the chloroplast and also one to make new side wood holders (2x4 cut in half) that fit over the pegs. Only metal in this thing are a few screws in the corner braces so no worries of someone operating it getting splash back from a bullet off steel. We had limited room and we put in two frames were one cantilever existed before. I like it myself. If we did all our bays, we would have 12 frames, but some of the old TR guys don't, they say it gives a poor sight picture since it is 6x6 and not 6x8 like they are use to a LR. With the closeness of these 2 frames, you would always hit paper, maybe not yours, but the one next door and you can correct off that, vs a total miss that is undictatable ie, off target and in the dirt somewhere. The 2x6 that has the pegs to hold the chloroplast is set in the skinny way so you get less hits on it and it also has a higher strength in the wind. These frames do not wave in the wind, like the big 6'x8' cantilever sails. Less force on them since they are smaller and the frames do not twist either. A 6'x8' target has almost twice the load force on it in a wind vs a 6'x6'. We tested these before installing them by tacking them to a 3/4 ton rear bumper and driving down a little used paved road to simulate a 40-50 mph north/south full value wind on them and operated them up and down to make sure everything worked as designed without any binding of the blue frame or wheels etc.
Yes, maybe over designed compared to the Sacramento type that use pipe over poles held on the ground with concrete but they have lasted for 3-4 years now and have been covered right up with snow each winter and we have done zero adjustments come spring. The only things that break are the pegs and the split 2x4 that holds the target to the 2x6 from a odd bullet hit
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- Location
- rocky mountain house
Kieth,can you post a close up pic of your bogie system where wheels roll against bar?angle? i think you just sealed the deal for our range if you do not mind us copying your design!
Kodiak99317
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan, Canada
Look at the last pic in post 83 above bud.
BTW, butts go in at the furthest down range location with one high dirt berm to stop the projectiles, and firing points are created at different yardages back from the butts.
Ranges in NA usually point north so the sun is not in your eyes and front of your scope. Also, only at the furthest yardage can you construct a permanent cover for shade.
I'm sure you know all of this.
I posted these drawing of our design for anyone to clone if they want. These also shows the concrete pit wall that is covered with dirt, the concrete overhead protection and the cat walk where the target crew stand and stay safe.
Hope to make it to your range once you have it setup for some friendly competition.
BTW, butts go in at the furthest down range location with one high dirt berm to stop the projectiles, and firing points are created at different yardages back from the butts.
Ranges in NA usually point north so the sun is not in your eyes and front of your scope. Also, only at the furthest yardage can you construct a permanent cover for shade.
I'm sure you know all of this.
I posted these drawing of our design for anyone to clone if they want. These also shows the concrete pit wall that is covered with dirt, the concrete overhead protection and the cat walk where the target crew stand and stay safe.
Hope to make it to your range once you have it setup for some friendly competition.
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- Location
- rocky mountain house
wow sorry Kieth,looked right at that pic this morning and brain was in back gear idle!!lol our range will have to be styled after kamloops but we will have butts at 500m and at 600m.the beauty of your design is apparent.thank you for letting us copy it and hope we have the pleasure of the saskatchewan gang at our first match next year!
Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
All the steel they have right now was donated. The sooner they have more donated the sooner it will be up. I donated enough to get a lifetime membership., ($1,000) Zombie Supply Canada is a preferred vendor for the Edson Range. If you contact stevesummit and order some steel and line it up with toofartolate, I'm sure he will work something out. Benefits both you and the club.
Great deal in my mind. All the 16" squares were donated by me. All the torso's were donated by stevesummit.
Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
Great choice!! I was ringing the steel at the 1600m with my .284 Love mine. Make sure to go with at least a 28" or longer barrel to get your velocity though. My only regret is going with a 25". Really struggle to get to 2800fps on the 180s. Im pushing the brass really hard.
Thanks. This will be a dual use gong-ringer/F-Open rifle, so barrel be as long as I can make it and be under weight. Still trying to decide if I want to go single shot short action or repeater long action. Leaning towards the short action....
What's the specs on yours?
Schecter 81
Regular
- Location
- Edmonton Area
Pierce long action
25 1/2" Broughton 1/9 twist 5c barrel
4 port side discharge brake
PTG .300 win mag bottom metal
Rifle Basix 6oz trigger
McMillan A5
Nightforce 5.5-22 MOA
Definately go long action. Don't even think about a short action. PTG has a .284 match reamer that is made for the 180's. I requested one set up for Lapua brass and a long throat for the 180's. A short action won't let you extract a loaded round or take advantage of the case capacity. I seat them out long. Love it.
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As you can imagine the work that was done to get to were are today was a huge undertaking. This is a work in progress so thanks for everyone's patients. As we acquire more steel we will put it up. There is a planned work day at the range on September 9th to work on a few out standing issues. We have two skid steers and a welder donated to work around the range so if any one can fit that day in, a few extra hands will speed up the progress. This is your range so it will develop into what you want it to be. Starting onsite at 9:00am, meeting at Edson Tags across from the RCMP at 8:00 for free coffee (Donated by Tags!!)
Pierce long action
25 1/2" Broughton 1/9 twist 5c barrel
4 port side discharge brake
PTG .300 win mag bottom metal
Rifle Basix 6oz trigger
McMillan A5
Nightforce 5.5-22 MOA
Definately go long action. Don't even think about a short action. PTG has a .284 match reamer that is made for the 180's. I requested one set up for Lapua brass and a long throat for the 180's. A short action won't let you extract a loaded round or take advantage of the case capacity. I seat them out long. Love it.
If I go short action, it will be single shot, so case capacity won't under-utilized. And I haven't had to extract a loaded round yet, and even if I had to, that what bolt releases are for... ;-)
At the moment, my decision looks like it will be largely based on availability though.....
Not complaining, not in the least. Despite the drive, I think this range will see a lot of me.
As for steel, do you have any sort of requirements as to what can be donated? Hardness, thickness etc?
