johnny the boy
CGN Regular
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Had one a few years ago. Did not cycle well with drum mag. Ok with stick mags tho.Wood version and it was around $450.00.
NEW Pietta PPS50 SBR 12" Barrel 22LR NON-Restricted
- Thread starter MarstarCanada
- Start date
The guy I bought mine from years ago sold it at a great price because it didn’t work properly. I have been using the thunderbolt with it and it’s running fine after a few hundred rounds so far with drum mags
This current one is plastic, and is made by Black Dog Machine LLC. I haven't used the drum yet, but I did load it up fully last night. You can tell the feeding isn't smooth. Will it cause problems? We will see tomorrow.
Both of the ones I own are plastic
Mine was at least 8lb..
I would have bought one years ago as I've always thought the PPS was one of the cooler looking submachine guns from the WWII era... but the longer barrel didn't look right. These knew versions take care of that!
It's not surprising that some guns might have issues given that they are semi auto .22lr and running drums and longer sticks brings even more possible function issues. The fact the gun has been around for decades and many people have not had issues suggests that most issues can probably be sorted by anyone that is handy and comfortable troubleshooting and tinkering.
I look forward to hearing the reports on the current batch!
It's not surprising that some guns might have issues given that they are semi auto .22lr and running drums and longer sticks brings even more possible function issues. The fact the gun has been around for decades and many people have not had issues suggests that most issues can probably be sorted by anyone that is handy and comfortable troubleshooting and tinkering.
I look forward to hearing the reports on the current batch!
This past Thursday, I picked up my wood stock 12" PPS 50, two 30-round stick mags, and one 50-round drum mag.
My first impression, is that the rifle is very short and light. I have several SBR 22's, but this is the shortest and lightest in my collection. The length of pull is short, and it feels more like a youth gun - not a negative for me. For reference, I'm a 5'6" guy, legs and arms proportionate. The rifle shoulders very nice, and it points well. The wood, which appears to be beech, is quite nice with surprisingly good grain for this price point and for my expectations. Initial fit and finish looked pretty good!
The two (purchased extra) 30-round stick magazines are plastic, and the build quality seems just ok. They appear to be made by Pietta. I noticed an incorrect screw (too long) was used to assemble one of the magazines near the feed lips, making the end of the screw stick out past the body of the magazine. Because of that, I wasn't initially able to seat this magazine in the magwell. So, I cut down this screw and reinserted it into the magazine body, and that issue was fixed. Inserting and removing the magazines is quite stiff at first, but eases up a bit through repetition. You have to align the magazine into the magwell channel quite deliberately, making mag changes somewhat cumbersome especially at first.
The 50-round drum magazine that came with the rifle is made by Black Dog Machine LLC, and is made of plastic. The build quality seems pretty good, and it feels hefty in a good way.
Loading both stick mags and the drum are pretty easy and took little time.
I field stripped it and oiled it so I would be ready to hit the range.
I took it to the range today, and I put around 700 rounds through it.
I used CCI Mini-Mags CPRN 40gr 1235 fps velocity, and Blazer RN 40gr 1235 fps velocity.
On each stick magazine's maiden voyage, and using the Mini-Mags, I had a ton of failures from stovepipes to double feeds - about every second round. After this quick 30-round "break-in" of each magazine, the gun functioned surprisingly better. I was getting 2-3 malfunctions (double feeds & stovepipes) per 100 rounds or so. When I tried the Blazer ammo, I initially experienced a malfunction every 2-3 rounds on the first mag, similar to the initial Mini-Mags. Afterwards, the gun would function, but not as reliably as the Mini-Mags. The most common issue with the Blazer ammo, was that it wouldn't feed properly into the chamber. I don't know what you'd call that particular issue, but here's a pic below of what it looked like when I removed the mag from the gun.
After this first happened, the mag itself would no longer feed ammo properly. It's like the spring lost tension and wouldn't push the follower upwards. The gun would fire a round, but not be able to strip a new round from the mag since the ammo wasn't pushed high enough in the mag to be chambered. I couldn't fix it by shaking, or adding/removing ammo from the mag. I completely disassembled the mag, but nothing looked broken. I reversed the spring, cleaned, and reassembled. Then it worked fine again.
As for the drum magazine. Oh boy lol. Every 2-3 successful rounds, I was getting a malfunction. Mainly double feeds, but some stovepipes too. This was consistent after a couple hundred rounds of Mini-Mags. Changing to the Blazer ammo didn't make any difference. I did get one surprising 15 round string, but that's the best I could manage.
When I was approaching 600 rounds, I could tell the gun was getting dirty and was starting to malfunction more.
Overall, the gun worked better with the Mini-Mags. The best I could get was 2-3 malfunctions per 100 rounds or so. To me, this seems reasonable for a gun like this. I'm expecting this will probably be as good as it gets since CCI/Blazer is quality plinking ammo (but who knows).
I wasn't testing for accuracy, but the gun seemed "pop can accurate". The sights were on target, I hit what I was aiming at, but I didn't measure any groups.
At the end of my shooting, I noticed the two screws securing the front sight post had wiggled their way loose and were nearly falling off. I fixed it with some blue locktite afterwards.
During post-range cleaning, I noticed that the gun had a ton of fouling/carbon around the breech, though easily removed. But much more caked on than any other SA .22 I own, even shooting the same ammo. Wear looked pretty good, with nothing noteworthy. The charging handle, once removed for cleaning, became quite loose once re-inserted. I wonder if this will wiggle it's way loose the next time I'm shooting. Field stripping was reasonably straight forward, and didn't take long. Though I saw some comments on YouTube saying otherwise. YMMV.
Overall, the gun was really fun! I think this is a good gun if you don't mind tinkering with it, and finding ammo it likes best. The drum mag looks badass, but I'd skip it since mine is a jam-o-matic, and other people seem to report the same thing.
A fun time for $670, but would be a blast for $400.
My first impression, is that the rifle is very short and light. I have several SBR 22's, but this is the shortest and lightest in my collection. The length of pull is short, and it feels more like a youth gun - not a negative for me. For reference, I'm a 5'6" guy, legs and arms proportionate. The rifle shoulders very nice, and it points well. The wood, which appears to be beech, is quite nice with surprisingly good grain for this price point and for my expectations. Initial fit and finish looked pretty good!
The two (purchased extra) 30-round stick magazines are plastic, and the build quality seems just ok. They appear to be made by Pietta. I noticed an incorrect screw (too long) was used to assemble one of the magazines near the feed lips, making the end of the screw stick out past the body of the magazine. Because of that, I wasn't initially able to seat this magazine in the magwell. So, I cut down this screw and reinserted it into the magazine body, and that issue was fixed. Inserting and removing the magazines is quite stiff at first, but eases up a bit through repetition. You have to align the magazine into the magwell channel quite deliberately, making mag changes somewhat cumbersome especially at first.
The 50-round drum magazine that came with the rifle is made by Black Dog Machine LLC, and is made of plastic. The build quality seems pretty good, and it feels hefty in a good way.
Loading both stick mags and the drum are pretty easy and took little time.
I field stripped it and oiled it so I would be ready to hit the range.
I took it to the range today, and I put around 700 rounds through it.
I used CCI Mini-Mags CPRN 40gr 1235 fps velocity, and Blazer RN 40gr 1235 fps velocity.
On each stick magazine's maiden voyage, and using the Mini-Mags, I had a ton of failures from stovepipes to double feeds - about every second round. After this quick 30-round "break-in" of each magazine, the gun functioned surprisingly better. I was getting 2-3 malfunctions (double feeds & stovepipes) per 100 rounds or so. When I tried the Blazer ammo, I initially experienced a malfunction every 2-3 rounds on the first mag, similar to the initial Mini-Mags. Afterwards, the gun would function, but not as reliably as the Mini-Mags. The most common issue with the Blazer ammo, was that it wouldn't feed properly into the chamber. I don't know what you'd call that particular issue, but here's a pic below of what it looked like when I removed the mag from the gun.
After this first happened, the mag itself would no longer feed ammo properly. It's like the spring lost tension and wouldn't push the follower upwards. The gun would fire a round, but not be able to strip a new round from the mag since the ammo wasn't pushed high enough in the mag to be chambered. I couldn't fix it by shaking, or adding/removing ammo from the mag. I completely disassembled the mag, but nothing looked broken. I reversed the spring, cleaned, and reassembled. Then it worked fine again.
As for the drum magazine. Oh boy lol. Every 2-3 successful rounds, I was getting a malfunction. Mainly double feeds, but some stovepipes too. This was consistent after a couple hundred rounds of Mini-Mags. Changing to the Blazer ammo didn't make any difference. I did get one surprising 15 round string, but that's the best I could manage.
When I was approaching 600 rounds, I could tell the gun was getting dirty and was starting to malfunction more.
Overall, the gun worked better with the Mini-Mags. The best I could get was 2-3 malfunctions per 100 rounds or so. To me, this seems reasonable for a gun like this. I'm expecting this will probably be as good as it gets since CCI/Blazer is quality plinking ammo (but who knows).
I wasn't testing for accuracy, but the gun seemed "pop can accurate". The sights were on target, I hit what I was aiming at, but I didn't measure any groups.
At the end of my shooting, I noticed the two screws securing the front sight post had wiggled their way loose and were nearly falling off. I fixed it with some blue locktite afterwards.
During post-range cleaning, I noticed that the gun had a ton of fouling/carbon around the breech, though easily removed. But much more caked on than any other SA .22 I own, even shooting the same ammo. Wear looked pretty good, with nothing noteworthy. The charging handle, once removed for cleaning, became quite loose once re-inserted. I wonder if this will wiggle it's way loose the next time I'm shooting. Field stripping was reasonably straight forward, and didn't take long. Though I saw some comments on YouTube saying otherwise. YMMV.
Overall, the gun was really fun! I think this is a good gun if you don't mind tinkering with it, and finding ammo it likes best. The drum mag looks badass, but I'd skip it since mine is a jam-o-matic, and other people seem to report the same thing.
A fun time for $670, but would be a blast for $400.
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Wow, that doesn't sound like a fun time.... it looks like the bullet that jammed up is giving you the finger.... but when you look closer it's actually laughing at you... 
No respect.
Was the gun wet with oil? Hopefully you can figure out what the issue is, maybe take the mags apart if possible(looks like the sticks might be riveted together?) and look for any burrs or other things that you can hopefully smooth out with some emery cloth?
No respect.Was the gun wet with oil? Hopefully you can figure out what the issue is, maybe take the mags apart if possible(looks like the sticks might be riveted together?) and look for any burrs or other things that you can hopefully smooth out with some emery cloth?
Yeah he mentioned he has completely disassembled the mag and somewhat worked fine after.Hopefully you can figure out what the issue is, maybe take the mags apart if possible(looks like the sticks might be riveted together?)
SIG FAN thank you for the nice review! I really appreciate the time and detail you put into giving info on this little rifle. It was not the outcome I was hoping for though I kind of expected it by reading past experiences. The fact the drum cant feed properly is a real let down as it's one of the big selling point. You cycled about 700 round in the rifle that's is a pretty significant amount of ammo for a break in so I don't feel you only tried 2-3 mags and wrapped it up. Id be curious to see how it would run once cleaned and oiled up too if that make any kind of difference. and yeah the asking price is a bit high if it is not going to be reliable. The GSG cost almost half the price and ran very well so it is hard to go backwards.
I do really like the aesthetic of the rifle, always wanted a ppsh
I wonder if the sticks can even be disassembled? I'd be looking for opportunities to smooth out the feed path even if it doesn't look "broken"
Then after smoothing as much as possible I'd consider a dry teflon type lube and see if that helps?
Yes, they can be disassembled, same with the drum mag, it’s all held together by hex bolts. Blackdog Machine LLC even sells parts for the magazines but I don’t think the components are available in Canada.
My experience mimics SIG FAN in terms of failures and issues with the drum mag. It’s a very accurate report, down to the loose sights and fouling
I’ve put about 600-700 rounds through my PPS50 but through multiple magazines.I have noticed the magazines run better after more cycles; perhaps the magazines do need a break-in.
Old posts seem to indicate that the feed ramp on the magazine needs to be filed down, polished, so that the bullet will slide into the chamber easier. I have not done that yet but will see if natural wear will improve reliability.
Also, I wonder if the cold weather is a problem; the lubricant on 22lr ammo does feel gummy at around 0°C, and old YouTube comments did say that this rifle doesn’t run so hot in cold weather…
In any case it’s still a fun rifle given our choices today, especially when you can get a long string of shots off.
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LOL I think that round was giving me the finger. The gun wasn't wet with oil, but just lightly lubricated by oiling with Hoppes Lubricating Oil and then wiping lightly with a cleaning cloth.
I've cleaned the gun after range day, and I'm gonna be hitting the range again on Wednesday or Thursday next week. Hopefully I can get it running a bit better, but I suspect 2-3 malfunctions per ~100 rounds is probably as good as it's going to get. I'm going to try out some Winchester white box ammo (555s), which should really bring out the LOLs. But .... ya never know!
I probably put around 250+ rounds through each stick mag, and around 150 through the drum. The stick mags improved dramatically after only 30 rounds each, and then leveled off. So if you pick this bad boy up, and it sucks right off the bat .... don't give up yet. Reload the mags a few times and see if it improves. Mag disassembly is quite easy, something like 7 hex screws. Putting it back together is a bit more difficult - it's a little tough to keep the spring in place when sandwiching the mag halves back together. You'll swear a bit, but it will go back together.
Yes, it's possible the gun/mags don't like the colder weather. I was shooting in temps around 8 degrees, so not too bad. But next week, I'll be shooting with it in likely below zero temps. So we'll see what happens. I'm cleaning with G96 Gun Treatment (CLP) and a touch of Hoppes lubricant - both fine in my other guns in the frigid cold.
I think if we had more choices when it comes to "full-sized mag" SA 22's, this gun would be just kind of ok. You'd have some people buying it for the cool factor, because it definitely looks cool. But the rest of my SA 22's run much more reliably (but have shorter mags).
But damn this thing looks cool and is fun to shoot.
I've cleaned the gun after range day, and I'm gonna be hitting the range again on Wednesday or Thursday next week. Hopefully I can get it running a bit better, but I suspect 2-3 malfunctions per ~100 rounds is probably as good as it's going to get. I'm going to try out some Winchester white box ammo (555s), which should really bring out the LOLs. But .... ya never know!
I probably put around 250+ rounds through each stick mag, and around 150 through the drum. The stick mags improved dramatically after only 30 rounds each, and then leveled off. So if you pick this bad boy up, and it sucks right off the bat .... don't give up yet. Reload the mags a few times and see if it improves. Mag disassembly is quite easy, something like 7 hex screws. Putting it back together is a bit more difficult - it's a little tough to keep the spring in place when sandwiching the mag halves back together. You'll swear a bit, but it will go back together.
Yes, it's possible the gun/mags don't like the colder weather. I was shooting in temps around 8 degrees, so not too bad. But next week, I'll be shooting with it in likely below zero temps. So we'll see what happens. I'm cleaning with G96 Gun Treatment (CLP) and a touch of Hoppes lubricant - both fine in my other guns in the frigid cold.
I think if we had more choices when it comes to "full-sized mag" SA 22's, this gun would be just kind of ok. You'd have some people buying it for the cool factor, because it definitely looks cool. But the rest of my SA 22's run much more reliably (but have shorter mags).
But damn this thing looks cool and is fun to shoot.
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I have one and the 50 round drum and stick mag. I used remington 36gr high velocity 22lr ammo. The bucket of bullets 1400 rounds.
It very rarely jammed or had any issues. This rifle seems to really high velocity bullets and didn't like 40gr cci.
Well that's good news the sticks are easy to take apart, kind of sucks that a new gun needs work or a thousand rounds to break in but hopefully you guys will get them running better! Polishing the feed path through the mags, and dry lubing with a dry silicone or teflon (not sure if PTFE is still around) spray should make the mags preform as best as possible, after that what ever wear surfaces in the action, maybe polish the chamber a bit and inspect the extractor.
Hopefully we will get some reports from people who have guns like the one Marstar highlighted that only has one failure per drum out of the box or better yet none!
Hopefully we will get some reports from people who have guns like the one Marstar highlighted that only has one failure per drum out of the box or better yet none!
