this is why.... not bs but ballistics... rifle round vs pistol round used in a rifle!... At longer ranges the advantage of the rifle cartridges is even greater. At 200 yards, for example, the 150 grain .30-30 bullet is still carrying 944 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy, while the 240 grain .44 Magnum bullet (the best of the combination rifle/pistol cartridges) retains only 638 ft. lbs. In fact, the .30-30 hits about as hard at 200 yards as the .44 Mag. does at 100 yards!
New Sask Regulations, .223 owners may be happy
- Thread starter Kelly Timoffee
- Start date
I think the only thing you got right there, is that you should stick with what works for you......
and thats legal...
No, you were pretty clear Ridersfan, you don't want to use a 22cf, so you think that nobody should be allowed to use a 22cf.
How about you try this instead: You don't want to use a 22cf for hunting deer, so don't use a 22cf for hunting deer, and let the rest of the province use what they want for hunting deer. Simple concept, no? You don't want to do something, so don't do that thing. Let other people worry about their choices in life.
Being born and raised in Sask. I too had the opinion that a 22cal rifle would never kill a whitetail. I moved to MB. over 30yrs ago, where any centre fire is legal and had a chance to take a nice buck while out coyote hunting with a 22-250 during deer season. I made a clean ethical one shot kill and have used a 22 cal rifle to take at least one deer every year since then. I have rifles in a lot of different cartridges ranging from 20-30 cal but I never feel under gunned with a 22 cal as long as I take shots within their limitations.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
I have to agree with all the nay-sayers over using 22-250 or .223 for deer... I hate em...Ive never shot a deer with either one but had a buddy that has used both extensively on deer for many years and well I'm damn tired of dragging, gutting, skinning truckloads of deer that were killed over the last 45 years with those "under powered things".
I cant remember having to track anything more than 10 minutes over all those years...not the case with other buddies with .270's, 30-06, .308 , myself with my .300 WM spent hours helping them recover wounded game, in my case the only deer I never recovered was a hit with the 300, trailed for 4 hrs until dark,even went back the next day and fund nothing.
I cant remember having to track anything more than 10 minutes over all those years...not the case with other buddies with .270's, 30-06, .308 , myself with my .300 WM spent hours helping them recover wounded game, in my case the only deer I never recovered was a hit with the 300, trailed for 4 hrs until dark,even went back the next day and fund nothing.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Myself I find it kind of odd the 44 Magnum is in the dust for Saskatchewan. Anyways, I think it is viable under certain conditions a varmint rifle (with the right bullet) could be okay if the varmint rifle/deer hunter has the discipline to pick his shots more carefully with properly sighted in equipment.
Now, saying this, is the small bore high velocity deer or antelope hunter up to this task? Can this be compared to archery white tail deer hunting?? Last time I used compound bow I had complete pass through 20 yards.
Now, saying this, is the small bore high velocity deer or antelope hunter up to this task? Can this be compared to archery white tail deer hunting?? Last time I used compound bow I had complete pass through 20 yards.
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You're splitting my words &/or I didn't articulate them clearly. Do I feel a 22-250 should be legal to take a moose? no. Am I asking anyone to lobby to block that, also no. I want the capable pistol calibers like 357 mag, 44-40, & 45 colt re-instated. They all have more energy than a 22-250. The laws made more sense previously when 22-250 was not allowed, yes... I am saying that. But I'm not calling to trample on anyone's right to use their caliber of choice. I think that people should be free to make their own choices. Penalize the stupid. If someone shoots a moose with a 22-250 and it runs off, that person should be penalized... the same as they will do to a bow hunter if they find an animal with an arrow in it running around (if they can figure out who dunnit)
I also don't believe that anyone should shoot a moose with one of the pistol calibers that shouldn't have been removed either.
Most of us are not the ones to be concerned with. It's the once a year cowboys that will only buy a 223 and get the cheapest ammo they can find without any thought to bullet construction whatsoever are the ones to look out for.
Are people routinely shooting deer with 7.62x51 ball ammo?...
Most calibers have ammo available that's not suitable for hunting. 243 is a very common deer cartridge that has a lot of varmint ammo available, I don't hear a lot of reports about guys wounding deer with 55gr vmax though...
Really? Wouldn't they already be doing that with 308s and ball ammo or 243s with varmint bullets?
I hear 22-250 is extremely popular for caribou (and a bunch of other stuff) in the north.
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Don't get me wrong. I've shot deer with a 22-250 and have no problem with it, but ......
There would be a very higher probability of the use of varmint ammo in a 223 then there would be in a 308 among those who wouldn't know the difference or care. Hunting BG with a 22 CF is legal here in NB. I've seen it many times.
So....poking the bear a bit here maybe....but why is a .223 a no go but a bow and arrow is fine? I also bowhunt - just asking the question. Is shooting a deer in the brain at 50 yds with a 22cf less ethical than a bow at 50? Or how about a 30-30 at 200?
I'm recalling a conversation I had with an old timer years ago. I asked what rifle to take moose hunting - he just laughed and said he took most of his moose with a .222 rem to the brain at close range. Just quit being lazy and get closer is what I recall him saying.
I'm recalling a conversation I had with an old timer years ago. I asked what rifle to take moose hunting - he just laughed and said he took most of his moose with a .222 rem to the brain at close range. Just quit being lazy and get closer is what I recall him saying.
Varmint ammo in a 308 is not terribly common, but surplus ammo (or cheap fmj factory ammo) is quite common. Varmint ammo in 243 is also pretty common. Personally I haven't heard any stories of people using either without knowing better (although I've only been doing this for a few years, and I bet those people aren't too quick to share their story.)
For the love of God don't get the headshot debate started... I'd much rather a 223 through the ribs then attempting a head shot even at sub-50yds, if wounding with a 22cal is a concern to you, wounding with a headshot should be an even bigger concern... Plus you can't really compare a bullet to a broad head, they work in totally different ways...
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
I don't know where you get this "knowledge" from but it directly contradicts a few tests I have done over the years between HG cartridges .
First of all chrono. testing with .357 mag & .45 colts in both 5" pistols and 20" rifles and cowboy ammo: both pistols chrono'd at 700 fps, then in rifles the .357 had an increase of 200 fps and the .45 increased 180 fps.
Then a "penetration" test with both with the same ammo: I set up 2 6x6's back to back and shot them from 20 yrds with the HG & 40 yrds with the rifles. Both pistols stopped in the first 6x (almost full penetration tho) and both rifles fully penetrated the first 6x and entered the second. The .357 went in about 2" and the .45 about 1/2 " less.
I'm pretty sure that with full hunting velocity loads the same effects could be multiplied by a noticeable amount.
Both test kind of disprove the notion that barrel length diminishes performance in HG rounds.
20 yards would be nasty....go a bit further with your test.....75 to 100 yards. I would be very interested to know the results...I dont have a carbine but do have the pistola...and at twenty yards it is nasty to say the least....what i am saying is that heavy slow 44/357 MAG at 100 plus yards in pistol/carbine rifle has lost most of it punch except for weight and size compared to an actual rifle cartridge....try it the next time you have a chance...
Everyone knows that ranges must be limited with low velocity cartridges. Being a handgun cartridge is hardly a problem if you know what the limits are, people hunt with handguns in the states all the time - and I've yet to see a cartridge that is less effective from a rifle than a handgun. Even the 22lr gains velocity up to about 16" in barrel length, so you can imagine a 357mag or 44mag (with its much larger powder capacity) will also gain velocity in a 16-20"rifle barrel over a 6" handgun barrel.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Read a little bit of Elmer Keith and you will soon discover that 44 magnum out of a long barrelled revolver and heavy hard cast lead would easily penetrate the walls of abandoned log cabin from a distance of several hundred yards.
If this is true then why the dismissal of 44 Rem Mag out of a long barreled cabin or rifle that has too outperform a handgun with the same ammunition?
Thanks.....so...100-125 yards for a 44MAG.. and about 200-225 yard for a 30-30 would be about right???
