New Ukrainian propaganda video featuring SKS

[serg777]

Quite a few countries have Nazy worshiping past, like Germany, Italia, Austria, but that does not bother those countries to exist and be ok now.

No matter how much of apologetic theories have been built around 2014 circumstances, whatever it was - it was in Ukraine, not in Russia. What is it to do with Russia, did Ukraine planned to invade Russia? Did those "nazy" say they plan on marching on Red Square?

Ukraine up until 2014 was pretty much demilitarized country, which has either destroyed its nukes or handed them to Russia under US supervision. That's why Russia so easy annexed Crimea and ignited the war conflict in Eastern Ukraine because Ukraine had no army to fight. It was after 2014 when Ukraine started militarizing after their territories were stolen. Yes, before 2014 Ukraine was looking to move its business more towards EU and US, perhaps becoming a member of EU, and US was helping with it in a good or in a bad way. But that's a business, economy wars, nobody was going to fight a real war with Russia. Nobody needs Russia itself, but their cheap gas and oil in exchange for fancy cars and phones, which Russia cannot produce.

The real motive of the Putin's war is that quality of life in Ukraine was on the rise for the past decade and at some point, it would be or already was better than in Russia. And it would become even worse for Putin if Ukraine would completely turn to EU and do well. Putin, with his gas and oil is not able to make a good life for russian people like other oil countries do. That would result people questioning Putin as a leader and perhaps some movement would start in Russia towards joining EU as well, which would undermine current Russian government. The only solution was to destroy Ukraine physically and make life there miserable. For that matter some BS legends were created to justify war, like Ukrainian nazy, NATO to invade Russia, setting traps for Russia etc. In reality Russia is needed just as a cheap and stable gas station and everyone was happy with that until Putin started this war.

In that US Mexico example, imagine if Mexico started partnership with other countries and its quality of life becomes better than US. No more cheap outsourcing, cheap immigrant labor, cheap tourist destinations. Of course US would not like it as it would be a bad look for US govt and US economy. SO, some BS reason would be created to destroy Mexico either on political level (setup pro-US govt) or war conflict where some Mexican states would be annexed in process. And keep in mind, today Mexico is not much militarized same as Ukraine was before 2014. But when US would start igniting conflict, pretty much sure Mexico will start pumping in weapons and then US say Mexico plans on war. SO in your US-Mexico example you missed one key step: US would have annexed (or "liberated") some Mexican state and then...

 

[crazy merc]

The Holocaust killed Roma, Slav, and LGTBQIA2S+ people, but that doesn't change the fact it was primarily directed against and killed many, many times more Jewish people. The Holodomor may have killed other Soviet ruled people, but it was directed against and most of its victims were Ukrainian. And you want to see a new Russo/Soviet/Fascist empire restored, second in history to only the Nazis in the scope of their evil? The KGB/FSB/GRU minds who planned the mass indoctrination of North American fifth columnists/sympathizers must be extremely happy to have succeed so well!

I think you are confusing terms here. The Holocaust, also known as the Shoah, was the genocide of European Jews. It had nothing to do with other groups of people.
Plus, during the Holodomor, majority of people who were starved to death weren't Ukrainians. But as I mentioned earlier, this fact does not suits your agenda.

 

[Pocisk]

https://rumble.com/vwxxi8-ukraine-on-fire.html

I finally got around to watching this movie recently. The two biggest takeaways were that 1) World War 1 and World War 2 happened concurrently, and 2) that Barrack Obama is a neocon.

Lol. The movie was a sad communist propaganda piece.

Winter on Fire is next on my list when I get a chance.

Ukraine was fighting on the side of Hitler ? Where did you get this drivel from?

People like to forget that the entire Soviet Union sided with Hitler, until Hitler double-crossed them. Bandera was a Ukrainian Nationalist, not a Nazi. He thought he could capitalize on the Nazi invasion to further his Nationalist goals, but it didn't work out too well for him.

I've heard it said that Putin's biggest miscalculation was overlooking something the Red Army had that the RF army doesn't have - Ukrainians.

 

[LolaPP]

You are correct...Ukraine deffinitelly has the upper hand as far as the propaganda is concerned, since it is 100% backed by the western MSM.

But Russia is winning the real war on the ground...with the recent capture of Soledar, they now have upper hand while advancing on the key stronghold of Bakhmut.

Not sure if you knew this, but "Glory to Ukraine" or "Glory to Heroes" is very much the equivalent of "Seigh Heil", as it was used in that context by known Nazi collaborants and war criminals such as Stephan Bandera or Roman Shukievich.

Many here are unaware of the fact, that Ukraine was fighting on the side of Hitler and they even had their own Nazi divisions (for which co-memorative celebrations are being held anually in cemetaries across Ukraine, complete with people dressed up in Nazi uniforms).

I guess I could point out that many here - well, at least you anyway - are unaware of the fact that WW2 started off with the russians fighting on the side of Hitler. The USSR spent one third of the war allied to Nazi Germany. They provided it with crucial supplies and bases. They carved up eastern Europe together. They committed some of the worst crimes in history together. The USSR followed it up by conquering and subjugating half of Europe for half a century. In no way did they liberate anyone, they simply kicked the Nazis out then replaced them as occupiers. If you want to raise awkward questions about collaborating with Nazis, that's probably a good place to start. But hey, that really doesn't, in fact, have much of anything to do with the legitimacy of russian aggression today. That stands all on it's own as a crime against humanity.

All your vatnik copium aside, the conclusion here is forgone. russia is losing. It's going to continue to lose, and it's going to lose badly. Already it's best (read: least worst) formations are reduced to scrap, and fertilizer for Ukrainian soil. Orc BTGs are companies now, if they aren't platoons. After eleven months of combat the russians have proven over and over and over they're incapable of adapting to the situation on the ground or indeed learning any lessons at all. Their C3 and leadership structure is fundamentally unsuited to this war, and that's not something they're going to be able to fix while the bulk of their land combat power is getting killed. It's astonishing to see first-hand how inept and incapable of adjusting their tactics they are - any hope of improving their operational and strategic level performance during this war is a pipe dream.

Every day Ukraine gets stronger and better armed, and every day russia gets weaker and loses equipment and trained men it's not in a position to replace. Meanwhile more and better weapons continue to flow to Ukraine, as tens of thousands of their soldiers are being trained by the best instructors in the world. Even if tomorrow Zelensky offered unconditional surrender and ordered Ukrainians to stop fighting, it wouldn't make a difference. He'd be overthrown and replaced and they'd crack on. Orcs want to be anywhere else other than freezing to death in a hole on the zero line in Donbas, while Ukrainians know they're fighting to liberate their country and most importantly prevent further atrocities like Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol and elsewhere. They KNOW what happens when the orcs roll into town, and they KNOW what the fate of Ukraine will be if they stop fighting. They won't. Ever. Even with a total Ukrainian military collapse and surrender the prize is a grinding merciless never ending insurgency that has the full military and financial backing of the west. Even the wildest most fantastical best case outcome for russia here is a TERRIBLE outcome.

Even after the war is over, the pain won't be end for russia. It's going to remain an international pariah until all the war criminals are handed over and reparations paid. It's going to take generations to rebuild the economy and army. If the russian federation survives this intact I'll be awfully surprised.

 

[LolaPP]

People like to forget that the entire Soviet Union sided with Hitler, until Hitler double-crossed them.

Beat me to it. Ok, I guess TWO people here seem to remember that.

I've heard it said that Putin's biggest miscalculation was overlooking something the Red Army had that the RF army doesn't have - Ukrainians.

Lol. Brilliant

 

[Ed Smurf]

Back to the OP. I still have never heard what happened to the weapons handed out to anybody who was willing to fight for Kyiv....were they turned in after the Russians left?

 

[crazy merc]

I finally got around to watching this movie recently. The two biggest takeaways were that 1) World War 1 and World War 2 happened concurrently, and 2) that Barrack Obama is a neocon.

Lol. The movie was a sad communist propaganda piece.

Winter on Fire is next on my list when I get a chance.




I've heard it said that Putin's biggest miscalculation was overlooking something the Red Army had that the RF army doesn't have - Ukrainians.

Actually statistically you are wrong, almost 10% of modern russian army are Ukrainians. Unless you don't trust CIA data.

 

[CZ Shooter]

I guess I could point out that many here - well, at least you anyway - are unaware of the fact that WW2 started off with the russians fighting on the side of Hitler. The USSR spent one third of the war allied to Nazi Germany. They provided it with crucial supplies and bases. They carved up eastern Europe together. They committed some of the worst crimes in history together. The USSR followed it up by conquering and subjugating half of Europe for half a century. In no way did they liberate anyone, they simply kicked the Nazis out then replaced them as occupiers. If you want to raise awkward questions about collaborating with Nazis, that's probably a good place to start. But hey, that really doesn't, in fact, have much of anything to do with the legitimacy of russian aggression today. That stands all on it's own as a crime against humanity.

All your vatnik copium aside, the conclusion here is forgone. russia is losing. It's going to continue to lose, and it's going to lose badly. Already it's best (read: least worst) formations are reduced to scrap, and fertilizer for Ukrainian soil. Orc BTGs are companies now, if they aren't platoons. After eleven months of combat the russians have proven over and over and over they're incapable of adapting to the situation on the ground or indeed learning any lessons at all. Their C3 and leadership structure is fundamentally unsuited to this war, and that's not something they're going to be able to fix while the bulk of their land combat power is getting killed. It's astonishing to see first-hand how inept and incapable of adjusting their tactics they are - any hope of improving their operational and strategic level performance during this war is a pipe dream.

Every day Ukraine gets stronger and better armed, and every day russia gets weaker and loses equipment and trained men it's not in a position to replace. Meanwhile more and better weapons continue to flow to Ukraine, as tens of thousands of their soldiers are being trained by the best instructors in the world. Even if tomorrow Zelensky offered unconditional surrender and ordered Ukrainians to stop fighting, it wouldn't make a difference. He'd be overthrown and replaced and they'd crack on. Orcs want to be anywhere else other than freezing to death in a hole on the zero line in Donbas. Ukrainian troops know they're fighting to liberate their country, prevent further atrocities like Bucha, Irpin, Mariupol and elsewhere. They KNOW what happens when the orcs roll into town, and they know what the fate of Ukraine will be if they stop fighting. They won't. Ever. Even with a total Ukrainian collapse and surrender this ends with a grinding merciless insurgency that will never end. Even the wildest most fantastical best case outcome for russia is a TERRIBLE outcome for russia here.

Even after the war is over, the pain won't be end for russia. It's going to remain an international pariah until all the war criminals are handed over and reparations paid. It's going to take generations to rebuild the economy and army. If the russian federation survives this intact I'll be awfully surprised.

Oh boy...you will be in for a nasty surprise very soon, as I won't even waste my breath trying to talk you out of it.
You clearly have no understanding of what is now taking place in Ukraine.
However, I do have some words to say about the fake news MSM, which got you to this point.

Remember, that the MSM is not in the business of bringing us unbiased information (any self respecting gun owner should already be well aware of this)

The MSM is in the business of narrative based reporting.

This could be clearly observed during Covid, where any information that did not fit their version "science" was attacked, cancelled and censored.

The Ukraine reporting is no different, as any dissent or difference of opinion is not tolerated.
It is a quasi Orwellian march from one victory to another by the Ukrainian army.....the uninitiated would almost think, that the Ukrainian army is on the outskirts of Moscow by now.

They got propaganda down to an art form...literally.
This includes producing fake videos "from the war zone" (of course depicting acts of heroism by the Ukrainian soldiers..etc).

Aside from staging fake massacres, which they then blame on Russia, they even do voice-over videos where they take real time videos made by the Russian soldiers and voice them over to make it sound like they are saying something else.
Here is a great example of that:

https://southfront.org/vain-attempts-of-kiev-regime-to-hide-truth-from-soledar/


The reality on the ground is much different of course.
With the recent Russian capture of Soledar, it is only a matter of time before a key Ukrainian stronghold of Bakhmut will collapse.
Once that happens, most of Donbass will be under Russian control.....this will give the Russian army many options on where to go next.

Again...guys like you will be standing there with their mouths open, trying to figure out what happened, as the Ukrainian lies are becoming unsustainable (even with the power of fake news MSM outlets firmly behind them).
Their house of cards is already starting to crumble.

 

[LolaPP]

Oh boy...you will be in for a nasty surprise very soon, as I won't even waste my breath trying to talk you out of it.
You clearly have no understanding of what is now taking place in Ukraine.
However, I do have some words to say about the fake news MSM, which got you to this point.

Remember, that the MSM is not in the business of bringing us unbiased information (any self respecting gun owner should already be well aware of this)

The MSM is in the business of narrative based reporting.

This could be clearly observed during Covid, where any information that did not fit their version "science" was attacked, cancelled and censored.

The Ukraine reporting is no different, as any dissent or difference of opinion is not tolerated.
It is a quasi Orwellian march from one victory to another by the Ukrainian army.....the uninitiated would almost think, that the Ukrainian army is on the outskirts of Moscow by now.

They got propaganda down to an art form...literally.
This includes producing fake videos "from the war zone" (of course depicting acts of heroism by the Ukrainian soldiers..etc).

Aside from staging fake massacres, which they then blame on Russia, they even do voice-over videos where they take real time videos made by the Russian soldiers and voice them over to make it sound like they are saying something else.
Here is a great example of that:

https://southfront.org/vain-attempts-of-kiev-regime-to-hide-truth-from-soledar/


The reality on the ground is much different of course.
With the recent Russian capture of Soledar, it is only a matter of time before a key Ukrainian stronghold of Bakhmut will collapse.
Once that happens, most of Donbass will be under Russian control.....this will give the Russian army many options on where to go next.

Again...guys like you will be standing there with their mouths open, trying to figure out what happened, as the Ukrainian lies are becoming unsustainable (even with the power of fake news MSM outlets firmly behind them).
Their house of cards is already starting to crumble.

Uh huh. Ok. I mean, *my* opinion is based on six months there fighting the orcs, to include on (and plus of) the zero line out east, time spent at the Div and Brigade level working with their commanders and staff, hundreds of conversations with hundreds of Ukrainians from all walks of life, including ethnically and linguistically russian ones from out east, and more than a few conversations with orc prisoners (that ones lucky enough to be taken alive, that is.) I have friends right now fighting in Soledar and Bakhmut. Some just recently returned for a second tour. I'm fairly confident I adequately grasp the tactical and operational situation in that part of the country.

I guess you obviously have more first hand experience than that. Fair enough.

I get it though, I do - when you have nothing else there's the sweet sweet copium. Even in your best case above - orcs in control of most of - screw it, let's say all of - the Donbas, then what? What does that get them? A zero line slightly farther west and north than it was before? Russia wasn't capable of competent offensives at the START of the war. The situation has not improved for them since then. There is a great deal of hard fighting ahead, but buddy, the conclusion is foregone here. The key factor is the Ukrainian resolve to fight. They. Will. Not. Quit. They will never stop fighting after what russia has done in the last year. Never. That is the first and most important thing to understand about the war there - it will never, ever end as long as there's live orcs on Ukrainian soil. *Maybe* - and I stress it's a VERY slim *maybe* - there would have been some slim chance of a peace deal without the complete removal of every orc from the 1991 borders, but after what's been discovered in the towns that have been liberated, it's an absolute non starter. It will never happen.

I mean christ man, the USSR lost this game already, and that's when they had double the population and access to far more resources. Now russia has an economy the size of Canada's and less than what, 1/8th the population of Europe and North America? How on EARTH is this going to end not in tears for russia? And I mean like tears for at least a generation, - longer depending on how long it takes them to come to Jesus.

Even your best case achievement here is a disaster. The great success is taking SOLEDAR? Soledar? The rashists have been kicked out of 40% of the territory they occupied. Something like 50% of the troops they started out with on 24 Feb are dead, wounded or prisoners. Massive equipment losses to the point that by far russia is Ukraine's best arms supplier. But hey, we took the completely flattened town of... Soledar. The problem is the exact thing you're showing as a triumph - all that and eleven months of war.and the best orcs can do is Soledar? It's like your kid coming home from school to show off their grade and a macaroni sculpture, but the grade is an F-, the macaroni is stuck up their nose, and they're the last one in their class left alive.

 

[Ed Smurf]

Your "Southfront" video and website is remarkably similar to RT ....coincidence?

 

[Murray 3-D]

Pro Putins can rant all they want on here but in the end,
your a ridiculously small minority situated in a NATO nation. Heck theres probably more furrys in this country then there are Putin supporters lol. The way I see it, there is really only 2 possible outcomes to this war and none of them favor "Putins Russia" : one, at great financial expense to the West and loss of life for Ukraine, Russia pulls a "Vietnam" and withdrawals from Ukraine. Putins regime likely collapses in the years to come. Two the West doesnt increase support and Ukraines motivation weakens enough to let Russia have the land in question, and what remains of Ukraine can join NATO to avoid this from happening again. Putins regime maybe doesnt collapse, but a growing number of Russians who dislike life there decide to move to Canada, some of which then later argue on CGN about how great Putin and Russia is lol

 

[medvedqc]

The President of Ukraine is of Jewish heritage. Israel has provided many lovely Tavor rifles and may well be providing air defences for Ukraine soon. And the Putin and his Wagner Gestapo are doing a lovely job of carrying on Hitler's facist legacy in murdering most of the population of Mariupol and commiting other war crimes in Buchau and many other locales. But you keep believing your GRU puppeteers, useful idiot, if that makes you feel better about yourself. Glory to the united people of Ukrainian, Russian, Jewish, Tartar and all other backgrounds fighting for freedom in Ukraine! Glory to the Heroes!

Beat me to it. Ok, I guess TWO people here seem to remember that.



Lol. Brilliant

more than 3 i can say ...

 

[medvedqc]

The President of Ukraine is of Jewish heritage. Israel has provided many lovely Tavor rifles and may well be providing air defences for Ukraine soon. And the Putin and his Wagner Gestapo are doing a lovely job of carrying on Hitler's facist legacy in murdering most of the population of Mariupol and commiting other war crimes in Buchau and many other locales. But you keep believing your GRU puppeteers, useful idiot, if that makes you feel better about yourself. Glory to the united people of Ukrainian, Russian, Jewish, Tartar and all other backgrounds fighting for freedom in Ukraine! Glory to the Heroes!

I think you are confusing terms here. The Holocaust, also known as the Shoah, was the genocide of European Jews. It had nothing to do with other groups of people.
Plus, during the Holodomor, majority of people who were starved to death weren't Ukrainians. But as I mentioned earlier, this fact does not suits your agenda.

well even Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn recognised in The Gulag Archipelago the fate of the ukrainians in the holodomor targetted to them by stalin regime ... but it is in 3 volumes and hard to swallow for some lovers of the great russia ...

for those that forget about the shoah it is to be remembered as posted by previous here that the actual president of ukraine is a jew ... so pro nazi ... it is so ridiculous ...

 

[Pocisk]

Winter on Fire is next on my list when I get a chance.

After posting this I thought "what better time than the present". A very detailed documentation of the Maidan Revolution. No sign of any Nazi's, except maybe the Putin-brownnose Yanukovych and his Gestapo-like thugs who opened live fire on their own people.

Very much worth watching, available free on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzNxLzFfR5w

 

[LolaPP]

Your "Southfront" video and website is remarkably similar to RT ....coincidence?

You know, one of the many very interesting things about this war is if you want to know how it's going for the russians, all you have to do is listen to the orcs on the front line. I mean, they'll tell you exactly how bad it is. They have no end of Telegram channels, and then there's all the intercepts. I mean, the nonsense posted above is purely for foreign consumption, the orcs in Ukraine know exactly how bad it is. There's no fooling someone freezing to death in a shell scrape. I mean literally. There's drone footage of an orc literally freezing to death as you watch. He's shivering, then he stops moving, then he passes out. They didn't even need to drop a grenade on him, they just watched him freeze to death.

Below is from the Wagner channel, from the admin. Russia starts off heading for Kyiv, ends up in a panic about Ukrainians rolling through Belgorod. That's not my words, or western media words, or anyone in the west's words, that's right from Wagner group. Unless I guess you want to argue it's actually run by the CIA

There's three lifetimes worth of this stuff on Telegram, right from the horse's mouth. The volume is several full time jobs to collect and analyze.

 

[BBBQ]

What the hell happened to this thread. Ah ok I'll jump in too.

About the SKS and it's ongoing story (the original intent of the post),
Buddy who says he has been to Soledar or has friends there: Is Soledar the salt mine where something like 3 million SKS, Mosin, K98s etc are/were stored? Somewhere I read about gun dealers going into the salt mines of Ukraine to do hand selects. Probably our SKSs and Mosins came from there, true or not??? I am curious, anyone have the photos? Zelensky says they're still in Soledar and everything's cool and under control. There's no way that guy would tell a fib, so just snap a pic of what's down there while you've got 'em on the run.

When the Ukrainian government posts some soldier with a cat photo, or a "hey we're all fun guys having fun on this tank" photo, or talks about "winning", it reminds me when Charlie Sheen was all high and talking about "winning". Yeah that guy was winning alright.

The history is long and complex. But for the proletariat man in Ukraine I think its simple. It was boiled down in the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and Newmann are playing Risk, and they talk about putting the hurt on Ukraine. That's unfortunately what the area of Ukraine is, a place where big players draw their battle lines and send their guys in, and sadly the people living there are irrelevant to those in power. Ukraine winning? Both sides only want to use the people in Ukraine as part of their bigger vision.

Another boiled down and brighter version of history. Many people in Canada, especially in the prairies, have great-grandparents who left what is now Ukraine in 1900 - 1920. Boy did things turn out good for them!!! Did it get better for those that stayed? What the history really shows is if you want a good life and a future for your family, leave Ukraine and don't look back. The history also shows that whoever is winning now, well it is never going to be over. Ukraine is, was, and will be the place for winning and glory.

 

[LolaPP]

What the hell happened to this thread. Ah ok I'll jump in too.

About the SKS and it's ongoing story (the original intent of the post),
Buddy who says he has been to Soledar or has friends there: Is Soledar the salt mine where something like 3 million SKS, Mosin, K98s etc are/were stored? Somewhere I read about gun dealers going into the salt mines of Ukraine to do hand selects. Probably our SKSs and Mosins came from there, true or not??? I am curious, anyone have the photos? Zelensky says they're still in Soledar and everything's cool and under control. There's no way that guy would tell a fib, so just snap a pic of what's down there while you've got 'em on the run.

You understand that simply having been in the area doesn't make one an expert on the history of precisely where the SKSs and 98ks that came here a decade ago originated from, right? It's like asking someone from Montreal about the status of weapons stored at Longue Pointe depot - I'm not sure man, they weren't doing guided tours.

I'm unaware of any recent statements by Zelensky about what is and isn't stored in the mines and what the status of it may be. Do you have a source? The one talking up lately about what's down there is Prigozhin, not the Ukrainians. I suspect it's largely if not wholly fantasy. There's no evidence for it - like, say, pics of caverns full of crates they just captured - apart from the fact that weapons have been stored there in the past. That's not good evidence for what's there now.

I have no specific knowledge about it, but I can say I would find it awfully surprising if the Ukrainians left anything useful down there after 11 months of war, in an area vulnerable to russian attacks. That doesn't really make a shred of sense to me. The area has been under Ukrainian control, so I'm not sure why you'd leave weapons and ammo down there rather than moving it west and/or handing it out. Anecdotally, the sheer volume of crates of AK74 pattern rifles I've seen across the country would sure lead me to believe they had an awfully large stockpile somewhere that they got them from.

When the Ukrainian government posts some soldier with a cat photo, or a "hey we're all fun guys having fun on this tank" photo, or talks about "winning", it reminds me when Charlie Sheen was all high and talking about "winning". Yeah that guy was winning alright.

I'm not sure that's the sort of rigorous analysis I'd be proud to highlight. It's like something Al Bundy would come up with if he were a defence analyst. Charlie Sheen is one matter, while the tactical, operational and strategic reality of the war would seem to be another quite unrelated one.

The history is long and complex. But for the proletariat man in Ukraine I think its simple. It was boiled down in the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and Newmann are playing Risk, and they talk about putting the hurt on Ukraine. That's unfortunately what the area of Ukraine is, a place where big players draw their battle lines and send their guys in, and sadly the people living there are irrelevant to those in power. Ukraine winning? Both sides only want to use the people in Ukraine as part of their bigger vision.

The book you want is called Bloodlands, by Timothy Snider. It's up on YT as well.
https://youtu.be/4mZDf0yd9ZI

The idea of Ukrainians being made to do anything that they don't want to do by outside actors is preposterously goofy. Trying to get a Ukrainian to do something without taking the time to get their complete buy in is just absolutely not going to work. When they do decide to do something, it's carried out in a highly effective very decentralized fashion. Even down to the level of small unit operations, if it's perceived as a dumb idea or you haven't adequately made the case for why it's necessary, it's not happening. You might not get an outright refusal and a scathing remark if it's only semi-stupid, what you'll get instead is a long drawn out process where it's "being looked into", absolutely no progress is made and they just wait you out until you get bored and give up.

If you recall that Seinfeld scene in full, you may also remember the reaction of the Ukrainian that overheard them. I think that part is more illustrative than Kramer's analysis of Ukraine's relative strengths and weaknesses, and indeed is the point of the whole scene. The joke was that they DIDN'T actually understand Ukraine, to their great peril. Or at least to the peril of their game.

 

[CZ Shooter]

So after reading through this thread couple days later, one thing became evident.
There are 2 firm camps, none of which seem to be able to reach the other.

There are bunch of lenghty posts, which I was planning to address individually at first, but then realized, that the rhetoric is nearly identical with most of it being based on the informational field created for the masses by the MSM.


The first group:
This group mainly consists of those, whom are basing their opinions on the fake news MSM (the exact same fake news that is spreading narratives about evil black guns, the philthy unvaxxed or the virtues of being trans gender)

These people had been conditioned well....no matter how much facts, evidence or logic they are presented with, it automatically gets filtered out as "Russian propaganda".
If Russia says that 5+5 =10, they will reject it, if it does not line up with what their friendly news anchor told them at 6 o'clock news.

There is simply no way to reach these people, same way there is no way to reach those whom had been indoctrinated by the vax propaganda, no matter how many holes in their theories and no matter how much of their narratives are falling apart.
To paraphrase the words of an ex KGB spy Yuri Bezmenov from one of his interviews "only once the tyrants shoe makes contact with their anus, then they will understand".

This has to do with human nature and the way our brains are wired....as the saying goes, it is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they had been fooled.
This is because the pride gets in the way...a very powerfull emotion, that will not let them process any information that counters their own.

Then there is the second group:

Most of these people did not start off by formig their opinions on the Ukraine conflict alone, but rather have a life philosophy of doing their own research.
A research independent of the MSM and connecting their own dots by examining the actual facts and evidence.
This is not easy and it can be very time consuming (deffinitelly not for everyone)...but getting the truth is never easy.

These are the true, independent thinkers and as one poster here pointed out, they are a minority (even though he meant it in a derogatory way).
They are indeed a minority, but this is in fact a badge of honour of sorts.
Historically speaking, most problems are always created when the tyrants in charge are able to get the brainwashed masses behind them and utilize them as the useful idiots for their agendas.

I'm pretty sure that most of you in this thread know exactly which group you belong to.

Another thing that crossed my mind is, that most people had forgotten how to keep their bias in check by always trying to see, if there is indeed any merit to what the other side is saying.

I always make sure to examine things from the other side often...just to makes sure, that I don't fall into the same trap of confirmatory bias, which all humans are vulnerable to falling into...but based on my personal experience, the MSM "know it all" hardcores never do that.

Even just by looking at which side of the conflict are the WEF puppets (most of western leaders today) supporting, it should already be evident as to who the good guys are by default.
Evident to anyone, whom pays attention to this bunch of clowns and their agendas of course.

 

[Ed Smurf]

You are correct..the guys destroying private homes and invading a neighboring country with criminals and private armies are the good guys according to you. Wow, how could we have missed that?

 

[CZ Shooter]

Uh huh. Ok. I mean, *my* opinion is based on six months there fighting the orcs, to include on (and plus of) the zero line out east, time spent at the Div and Brigade level working with their commanders and staff, hundreds of conversations with hundreds of Ukrainians from all walks of life, including ethnically and linguistically russian ones from out east, and more than a few conversations with orc prisoners (that ones lucky enough to be taken alive, that is.) I have friends right now fighting in Soledar and Bakhmut. Some just recently returned for a second tour. I'm fairly confident I adequately grasp the tactical and operational situation in that part of the country.

I guess you obviously have more first hand experience than that. Fair enough.

I get it though, I do - when you have nothing else there's the sweet sweet copium. Even in your best case above - orcs in control of most of - screw it, let's say all of - the Donbas, then what? What does that get them? A zero line slightly farther west and north than it was before? Russia wasn't capable of competent offensives at the START of the war. The situation has not improved for them since then. There is a great deal of hard fighting ahead, but buddy, the conclusion is foregone here. The key factor is the Ukrainian resolve to fight. They. Will. Not. Quit. They will never stop fighting after what russia has done in the last year. Never. That is the first and most important thing to understand about the war there - it will never, ever end as long as there's live orcs on Ukrainian soil. *Maybe* - and I stress it's a VERY slim *maybe* - there would have been some slim chance of a peace deal without the complete removal of every orc from the 1991 borders, but after what's been discovered in the towns that have been liberated, it's an absolute non starter. It will never happen.

I mean christ man, the USSR lost this game already, and that's when they had double the population and access to far more resources. Now russia has an economy the size of Canada's and less than what, 1/8th the population of Europe and North America? How on EARTH is this going to end not in tears for russia? And I mean like tears for at least a generation, - longer depending on how long it takes them to come to Jesus.

Even your best case achievement here is a disaster. The great success is taking SOLEDAR? Soledar? The rashists have been kicked out of 40% of the territory they occupied. Something like 50% of the troops they started out with on 24 Feb are dead, wounded or prisoners. Massive equipment losses to the point that by far russia is Ukraine's best arms supplier. But hey, we took the completely flattened town of... Soledar. The problem is the exact thing you're showing as a triumph - all that and eleven months of war.and the best orcs can do is Soledar? It's like your kid coming home from school to show off their grade and a macaroni sculpture, but the grade is an F-, the macaroni is stuck up their nose, and they're the last one in their class left alive.

I will address your post separatelly, as you claim to have been there (or at least are able to find it on the map unlike the others)..fair enough.

First off...the bias is literally dripping from your post and it is not your fault, as you had of course been conditioned to see the Russians as the enemies, being that you are on the other side of the barricate.
But I can give it about the same credibility as to a Wehrmacht soldier reporting from the front in 1942 saying how they are kicking ass.

Curious...when you say that you "spoke to the other side"
Did you also speak to those, whose families had been brutally tortured and murdered by Neo Nazi paraphanelia sporting thugs for no other reason, than their primary language being Russian?
But I digress...

What you or your NATO friends are doing in Ukraine does not interest me, aside from admitting that they are there.

Politics aside, let's look at this from yet another angle:

For practical purposes, thid conflict could be divided into 3 stages:

1) US sponsored Maidan coup of 2014

2) Russian special operation which started in 2022

3) Real actual war, which will likely be starting once the ground freezes to certain depth in order to be able to support the heavy equipment.

My opinion on the first stage has already been made more than clear througout my other posts, so nothing new to add there.

As far as the second stage is concerned..there are few factors at play here.
First...Russia has obviously underestimated the level of fortification, which had been achieved in 8 years of western help.
This includes money, equipment, training, military consultants, western mercenaries...etc.

Second..the aim of the special operation was pretty narrow...basically the liberation of the Russian minorities from Nazi thugs like Azov, whim had been murdering and terrorizing them for 8 long years, while the west looked the other way.
This is why the initial Russian contingent was inly about 80 000 at the beginning, which then got topped off to about 150 000 combat troops.
Think of it as more of a limited police operation in it's essence.

Third...their orders were very strict, as far as avoiding to damage any civilian infrastructure (unlike any US operation, in which the civilian infrastructures are always the first to be targeted).
The Ukro-Nazi thugs of course took advantage of this and made a point of hiding their equipment in schools, hospitals etc...the very structures that the Russians were forbiden to attack.

This led to unnecessary losses on the Russian side and it became evident, that in order for this operation to be successfull, more troops will be needed.
With the realization, that the Russian army is now fighting not only the Ukrainian army, but the combined force of NATO which supplies them with virtually unlimited money, intel, equipment, training and personel to operate the western weaponry, along with the foreign mercenaries wearing Ukrainian uniforms, different strategy was needed.

One thing to note, that the value of the western aid had already exceeded 2x the Russian military budget for the whole year and that was expanded in about 8 months.
Despite of this, Russia controlls about 20% of Ukraine (it is now part of Russia), which happens to be the most important part as far as any industry and agricultural lands is concerned.

When you dowplay the significance of places like Bakhmut and Soledar (strangely, the Kiev regime is sending the best they have into these "unimportant" parts).
Soledar for example has either the biggest (or one of the biggest) salt mines in all of Europe.
Do you realize how important all the minerals are to today's economy?
You claiming that these areas are not important is nothing short of idiotic.

So let this sink in.
Russia is now fighting the collective west with all of their fancy weaponry and intel...yet they have no issues with hitting any spot in Ukraine with their hypersonic missiles at will, for which NATO has no analogue.
They now own about 20% of Ukraine (those people voted to be part of Russia), which happens to be the most important part, with a major offensive on the horizon.

But Russia is somehow losing??
Inside your head perhaps, as the likes of you will be waking up to a new reality very soon.