New Ukrainian propaganda video featuring SKS

[medvedqc]

it is a war: not special operation .. man stop to spill moscow propaganda ...

 

[BBBQ]

The idea of Ukrainians being made to do anything that they don't want to do by outside actors is preposterously goofy.

I thought that all Ukrainian men are at risk of conscription, or at the very least they aren't allowed to leave the country? And their leader is an actor. Maybe I'm wrong maybe that's all propaganda too.

If you recall that Seinfeld scene in full, you may also remember the reaction of the Ukrainian that overheard them. I think that part is more illustrative than Kramer's analysis of Ukraine's relative strengths and weaknesses, and indeed is the point of the whole scene. The joke was that they DIDN'T actually understand Ukraine, to their great peril. Or at least to the peril of their game.

The scene ends with a Ukrainian guy smashing the entire world. Lets hope it doesn't come to that!

Here's an article from The Guardian about the salt mine weapons cache.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/protesters-ukraine-weapons-cache-mine

 

[LolaPP]

I will address your post separatelly, as you claim to have been there (or at least are able to find it on the map unlike the others)..fair enough.

First off...the bias is literally dripping from your post and it is not your fault, as you had of course been conditioned to see the Russians as the enemies, being that you are on the other side of the barricate.
But I can give it about the same credibility as to a Wehrmacht soldier reporting from the front in 1942 saying how they are kicking ass.

Curious...when you say that you "spoke to the other side"
Did you also speak to those, whose families had been brutally tortured and murdered by Neo Nazi paraphanelia sporting thugs for no other reason, than their primary language being Russian?
But I digress...

What you or your NATO friends are doing in Ukraine does not interest me, aside from admitting that they are there.

Politics aside, let's look at this from yet another angle:

For practical purposes, thid conflict could be divided into 3 stages:

1) US sponsored Maidan coup of 2014

2) Russian special operation which started in 2022

3) Real actual war, which will likely be starting once the ground freezes to certain depth in order to be able to support the heavy equipment.

My opinion on the first stage has already been made more than clear througout my other posts, so nothing new to add there.

As far as the second stage is concerned..there are few factors at play here.
First...Russia has obviously underestimated the level of fortification, which had been achieved in 8 years of western help.
This includes money, equipment, training, military consultants, western mercenaries...etc.

Second..the aim of the special operation was pretty narrow...basically the liberation of the Russian minorities from Nazi thugs like Azov, whim had been murdering and terrorizing them for 8 long years, while the west looked the other way.
This is why the initial Russian contingent was inly about 80 000 at the beginning, which then got topped off to about 150 000 combat troops.
Think of it as more of a limited police operation in it's essence.

Third...their orders were very strict, as far as avoiding to damage any civilian infrastructure (unlike any US operation, in which the civilian infrastructures are always the first to be targeted).
The Ukro-Nazi thugs of course took advantage of this and made a point of hiding their equipment in schools, hospitals etc...the very structures that the Russians were forbiden to attack.

This led to unnecessary losses on the Russian side and it became evident, that in order for this operation to be successfull, more troops will be needed.
With the realization, that the Russian army is now fighting not only the Ukrainian army, but the combined force of NATO which supplies them with virtually unlimited money, intel, equipment, training and personel to operate the western weaponry, along with the foreign mercenaries wearing Ukrainian uniforms, different strategy was needed.

One thing to note, that the value of the western aid had already exceeded 2x the Russian military budget for the whole year and that was expanded in about 8 months.
Despite of this, Russia controlls about 20% of Ukraine (it is now part of Russia), which happens to be the most important part as far as any industry and agricultural lands is concerned.

When you dowplay the significance of places like Bakhmut and Soledar (strangely, the Kiev regime is sending the best they have into these "unimportant" parts).
Soledar for example has either the biggest (or one of the biggest) salt mines in all of Europe.
Do you realize how important all the minerals are to today's economy?
You claiming that these areas are not important is nothing short of idiotic.

So let this sink in.
Russia is now fighting the collective west with all of their fancy weaponry and intel...yet they have no issues with hitting any spot in Ukraine with their hypersonic missiles at will, for which NATO has no analogue.
They now own about 20% of Ukraine (those people voted to be part of Russia), which happens to be the most important part, with a major offensive on the horizon.

But Russia is somehow losing??
Inside your head perhaps, as the likes of you will be waking up to a new reality very soon.

You could have saved a lot of typing and just written "russian talking points." I'm very well versed with what they are and their relationship to reality.



But ok, let's stipulate that the russians actually mount a successful offensive, your best case comes to pass, and by March russia has complete control of all four oblasts.

Then what? What do you think will happen after that? Please note your answer must account for manning levels required to defend a front that long and an area that size. If you can show your math on occupying force ratios, wastage and attrition that would be great.

 

[LolaPP]

I thought that all Ukrainian men are at risk of conscription, or at the very least they aren't allowed to leave the country? And their leader is an actor. Maybe I'm wrong maybe that's all propaganda too.

Well you (no surprises here) thought wrong. First off, it's 18-60, and then there's a list of exemptions to that, and then the fact that there still hasn't been mass general conscription in Ukraine. The call ups are those with prior military experience. Certainly in the absolute chaos there's going to be exceptions and screw ups, but no, the vast majority of Ukrainians fighting are volunteers. The issue is training and equipping, not manpower. It's basically a cliche at this point that your waiter or taxi driver has at some point tried to bribe their way into the ZSU, failed, and has a call up number in the mid tens of thousands range. The force generation problem for Ukraine has nothing to do with lacking volunteers. Now that the NATOish training mission is back up and running in the UK, there's going to be nothing but a constant stream of well trained soldiers heading back to Ukraine. Add on to that the EU training and assistance mission. Plus, everyone seems to forget the hundreds of thousands of expats and diaspora that returned to fight. I have no idea about numbers, but anecdotally, it was common to run into Ukranians returned from abroad with military experience in a NATO army, or the ZSU, or both. It's exactly the reverse of the situation in russia.

I
Here's an article from The Guardian about the salt mine weapons cache.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/24/protesters-ukraine-weapons-cache-mine

Hey, thanks I definitely hadn't read that nearly decade old article, written before Ukraine liberated and regained control of the area for over eight years. Jeeze, I bet they didn't take any action whatsoever after that. Certainly not after the Feb 24 invasion. I bet the situation since that article was written absolutely hasn't changed at all. I bet absolutely none of those weapons have been moved or long ago sold on the surplus market.

 

[Can-down]

How long can Nato run the war?
I'm assuming that much of what has been sent to Ukraine was extra equipment, but at some point I would also assume that the countries supplying the war effort are running out of gear and the Millitary suppliers are working as hard or likely harder then the people printing the money. I keep hearing about problems for the economy with printing money but it seems to not really be slowing down.

Does Nato have as much gold as Russia or does that even matter anymore given that the financial system is primed for a big crash?

This thread has given me a glimmer of hope that the Russians will be out of Ukraine in the next month or so, given how well the Ukrainians are apparently doing and how many ten's of thousands of volunteers are lined up and ready to go get trained in the UK.

 

[CV32]

... 3) Real actual war, which will likely be starting once the ground freezes to certain depth in order to be able to support the heavy equipment.

There are >5,400 dead Russian vehicles of various types (including tanks, IFVs, etc) and >1,700 dead Ukrainian vehicles (of the same various types), we've nearly rolled around the calendar once already, and the "real actual war" has yet to start? ROFLMAO.