Norc bashing is it really warranted?

enefgee said:
Yup, a 70 year old K98 firing full power 8mm from a 5 round box using Mauser iron sights will always outshoot a 223 AR feeding from a 10 round pistol mag and sighted using a red dot in a timed match every time. Oh yes, and with RC Mausers running $700 where are you finding them for $450.
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I didn't actually say that - but let's take an honest look at your statement just for gits and shiggles. Yes, a good K98 will indeed shoot circles around a Norc M14 with pot metal sights made of off-spec metal that won't hold their settings. I am not telling any lies here or trying to make anybody feel bad. This was a common consumer complaint with the Norc M14's and that was ON TOP of other common consumer complaints like improperly indexed gun barrels and even sloppy headspacing - which will indeed cause ka-booms under the right circumstances. So blaming the operator for a shoddily made gun doesn't wash with me. Norinco's QA/QC issues are a matter of public record. At best these guns are suitable platforms to build on, or for the casual/piker shooter that only shoots a couple boxes of ammo a year and doesn't have any real expectations for the gun.

So yes, it is indeed possible for a rusted out 80 year old K98 to outshoot a stock Norc fresh off the boat from China. And I don't know about you - but I can get a good K98 or K31 for $500.00. The pristine collectors might fetch more...but for war horses I think I'm in the ballpark.
 
Norinco is the best thing to happen to Canadian sport shooters. They allow new shooters to get into the sport at an entry level while still maintaining their interest. Norinco quality varies a lot from model to model however and it is very much a "buyer beware" type deal. As with anything you need to do your research before you reach for the credit card so you know what you're getting into.
 
I have a Norinco CQ-A, and a HP9. l've got nothing but good things to say about them. I've never had an issue with either one. Plus l know someone that owns a Norinco .45 as well as a CQ-A. and he feels the same way. Maybe they had issues years ago, but l haven't heard anything bad about them in quite a while. l'd buy another Norinco is a second.
 
Well that's the other side of this coin isn't it? When the Japanese industrialized they started off producing the same low quality crap that China is famous for today. But as they got deeper into the game and learned more about what they are doing - their quality went straight up. So it will go for the Chinese I suppose. If I were an American gun manufacturer I would be having nightmares about Norinco right about now...they are not a threat today...but tomorrow?
 
At my local club there are more Norinco's than any other gun. Mostly new members buy them.
Bash them all you want, but they are the new shooters choice.

As to 1911 knockoffs, Colt has left the building long ago. My Norc .45 1911 shot better than any Colt Government model I ever owned, even a Gold Cup Series 80 which was the worst POS I ever encountered in my life. Despite several trips back for warranty it still would not feed or shoot better than 6 to 8" group from a Ransom rest.
 
They are wonderful guns for getting new shooters going, and for exploring a few different platforms on the cheap, provided that issues with Norc crudeness isn't what turns them away from the 1911, Sig, CZ, what have you. No one, I think, is denying that they have a role to play.

The question of whether they get too much negative press from the community is what was asked here. In the end it is a buyer beware, no warranty beyond a Good Neighbor policy at a few vendors, relatively crudely fettled line of products, with some exceptions. That's about it.

The good thing, I suppose, is that if you do not farkle it to death, you won't lose your shirt selling it and, conversely, you don't have to buy used and risk purchasing someone else's problem, because new prices, especially if you wait for sales, are rock bottom as it is.

Beyond that there is no magic to Chinese guns. They sell because they are cheap, and they are cheap because few would buy them if the prices were closer to other products made overseas - Philippine, Turkish, South American arms makers all compete at the level just above Norc and upwards.

So, yes - they are ok for what they are

And, yes - new shooters need to be aware of the trade offs they will accept in purchasing one, so some "bashing" (from those who own and have owned those guns) is in order.

And that's why we keep having these identical norinco threads every few weeks.
 
I will also add to this thread, my Norinco/Dominion Arms 12.5" shotgun that came to the country back in 2008, first batch..........is well over 70,000 rounds fired (stopped counting and caring) and nothing has broken, an only the odd 3" shell has been a bugger to get out of the chamber at times.

Had few double feeds but minor tuning up of things inside gun is now 100% awesome.

Here is a picture after a weekend few years ago.

IMG_2222.jpg


Random .410 shells in there from another shotgun, but that gun will eat anything you stick in it and always go bang without any drama!
 
Well seems we have a few more PRO comments here with the odd horror story.

My question stills stands are these getting bashed too much as I keep hearing about Colt, Beretta, and Glock issues but little bashing why?

I used to have a Dodge Caravan, the transmission fell out at 113k, I was in the repair shop he said yeah do a few a week I said so all Dodges are a POS he said well some are some aren't but when you have 10 times as many on the road over Hondas of course you will hear more complaints I think that is the case here as well.

Seems we will always have nay sayers with bigger budgets but I will remain objective as opposed to closed minded.

Oh and for those that say they don't want to support the Chinese, look at your Iphone, PC, house appliances and US made with Chinese parts.........................

If you drive an American car good chance the brake rotors are Chinese, funny bet you are not pulling them off for German

Randy
 
randyhub said:
Oh and for those that say they don't want to support the Chinese, look at your Iphone, PC, house appliances and US made with Chinese parts.........................

If you drive an American car good chance the brake rotors are Chinese, funny bet you are not pulling them off for German

Randy
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Not just the brakes and rotors; there's an excellent chance that if your car was recently made in NA, Japan, Korea or Europe your airbag, ABS, and traction control sensors were manufactured in Wuxi, China.

These days if anyone still thinks they're not buying "Chinese crap" they're either Amish or delusional.
 
randyhub said:
Well seems we have a few more PRO comments here with the odd horror story.

My question stills stands are these getting bashed too much as I keep hearing about Colt, Beretta, and Glock issues but little bashing why?

I used to have a Dodge Caravan, the transmission fell out at 113k, I was in the repair shop he said yeah do a few a week I said so all Dodges are a POS he said well some are some aren't but when you have 10 times as many on the road over Hondas of course you will hear more complaints I think that is the case here as well.

Seems we will always have nay sayers with bigger budgets but I will remain objective as opposed to closed minded.

Oh and for those that say they don't want to support the Chinese, look at your Iphone, PC, house appliances and US made with Chinese parts.........................

If you drive an American car good chance the brake rotors are Chinese, funny bet you are not pulling them off for German

Randy
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So you think there are more Norinco's in North American hands then Colt/Beretta/Glock?
The reason nobody makes a HUGE deal over something breaking on those guns is that it is a rare occurance vs the weekly thread on here about "My Nork ### won't feed/extract/parts won't fit/mags won't fit/sights are crooked/gun blew up"....
Despite all the flak Remington gets for shoddy QC, it only takes a few instances for them to issue a complete recall sometimes going back decades. Recently was the Xmark Pro trigger reccall, a few cases where the loctite they use on the trigger screws caked and fell off. They recalled them back to 2006 and replaced/repaired the triggers free of charge. Think you are ever going to see Norinco recall M14's for excessive headspace?
 
Hitzy, I understand, but it's the price point mainly. Who cares about warranty when it's cheap and provides the tinkerer something to play with.
This board has done more to upgrade the Norc M14 than anything else. Many have gone into it and come out of it. They are great guns for the novice gunsmith to practice on too. One can build a Norc 1911 to be as accurate and reliable as any Les Baer or Ed Brown once you add all the aftermarket parts that they do.

Bought a $20 Coffee maker from you guessed it China and was asked about extending warranty. Why bother. LOL
 
Pop said:
'Tis the work of the devil good sir, consort with it not!
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Bring it back around:

I wonder how many Pennsylvania Dutch adolescents in their Rumschpringe would return to join an Old Order Amish community, if they only got to experience the glory that is modern firearms (Norinco or not)?

Hard to go back to that blunderbuss, I'd imagine!

[* Norinco blunderbuss, OH YEAH!]
 
Where I work most of guys cry when there is work and when there is'nt any work they cry also . you have to look at it this way we are spoiled in some ways . if the Chinese firearms could be sold on the American market at the moment we would'nt be seeing many of them if any at all and if we did we would be paying more for them then we are paying at the moment . I bought a Ruger last year and have always liked Ruger firearms and I had problems with it from the get go .

I had it shipped to the repair depot and fixed and returned to me . and I bought a Norinco just recently for under $300 dollars to my door and it has'nt failed me yet. I used to have a Chinese sks and it shot like a dream . I have also owned 2 Chinese M14 copies and one was great and the other one not so great . but they both functioned . they cost me around $350 dollars. could I afford to buy one out of the US for over $2000 dollars heck no and I would'nt .

I know two guys who belong to my target club from South Africa and both of them have owned Norinco firearms and they have both said they take forever to wear out . sure there's good and bad stuff that comes out of both China and the US but who am going to believe . some guy who surf's a gun website daily and thinks thier an expert on everything or someone who had to carry a firearm to defend life and limb on a daily basis . your choice.
 
It really is about knowing what you are buying, but this is the internet and Norc's are inexpensive, entry level, general use. If the buyer does not do any research, they will come here and complain about stuff, that all guys who did there research already know about.

It is to be be expected from people buying cheap.
 
randyhub said:
I used to have a Dodge Caravan, the transmission fell out at 113k, I was in the repair shop he said yeah do a few a week I said so all Dodges are a POS he said well some are some aren't but when you have 10 times as many on the road over Hondas of course you will hear more complaints I think that is the case here as well.
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When was that? 1975? Honda sells more cars than Chrysler these days (let alone the Dodge division by itself).
 
But like some others have commented, When a name brand has a problem it is a "known issue" or "quirk", these things happen once in a while right all is forgiven. But when a nork has a problem they are all called junk. It seems to me there is more feelings involved in this than fact. Some people even take the illogical both sides saying things like.... "my norinco has had x thousands of rounds through it with it with no failures ,never a problem .. ... but ya know I wouldn't bet my life on it....."
Im like... but you just said it was completely reliable ????
 
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