punkrockboy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Eastern Bantario!
A question for you dogleg" how long have you had the M14, and did you strip the bolt right down to clean the firing pin channel?
Norinco M14 Blew Up
- Thread starter Dogleg
- Start date
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I did lots of research on what was okay when reloading for the M14, and I disagree your statement that 44gr of IMR 4895 is overboard for the M14.
I shoot 45gr of IMR 4895 in my M14's all day long, with 150' AND 165's, and I reload the same brass 5x before I pitch them (due being beat up) and I see no pressure signs in the brass (and the brass in the rifle mentioned would have had to EXPLODE before the rest of the rifle did). My rifle is not battered around, and certainly not exploding. Even if 44 gr was a bit much (which it is NOT), and he should be been using say 42 gr, - rifles don't explode because of 2gr of powder extra. Military and factory ammo has enough variance in powder levels that if being 2gr over resulted in exploding firearms they'd be exploding all over battlefields, ranges and hunting grounds all the time.
If 44gr of IMR 4895 was the cause of this explosion, EVERY TIME SOMEONE DROPPED THE HAMMER ON A FACTORY 180, M14's WOULD BE EXPLODING.
Honestly now...
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it's as simple as this...... one look at the fired case tells you the round went off out of battery. seriously folks...... armchair gunsmiths can sit around on thier keyboards and debate this all day long.
I don't even need to have that gun in my hands to know 90% proof positive what occurred here. Simply put, it 90% that the cause was a stuck firing pin OR faulty ammunition ie: high primer.
lesson to you all who think your reloading recipe or sizing technique is "the path" ..... get the Kuhnhaussen m14 shop manual and your #### won't fall off.
It's very fornuate that Mr. Dogleg did not seriously injure himself, for that we can all be relieved. And it's excellent learning fodder for us all to pay attention to.
will still be interesting to get some technical feedback from Savage on this.... but i think we can safely put the "cause" debate to bed
I don't even need to have that gun in my hands to know 90% proof positive what occurred here. Simply put, it 90% that the cause was a stuck firing pin OR faulty ammunition ie: high primer.
lesson to you all who think your reloading recipe or sizing technique is "the path" ..... get the Kuhnhaussen m14 shop manual and your #### won't fall off.
It's very fornuate that Mr. Dogleg did not seriously injure himself, for that we can all be relieved. And it's excellent learning fodder for us all to pay attention to.
will still be interesting to get some technical feedback from Savage on this.... but i think we can safely put the "cause" debate to bed
Did you guys know that 89.3% of all statistics are just made up?
Maybe, but it is pretty safe to say that ACPKing is correct in this case.
If he's unhurt I do not know! Usually "peppered with shrapnel" is never good, I don't know if he confirmed wether or not he was injured
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it's as simple as this...... one look at the fired case tells you the round went off out of battery. seriously folks...... armchair gunsmiths can sit around on thier keyboards and debate this all day long.
I don't even need to have that gun in my hands to know 90% proof positive what occurred here. Simply put, it 90% that the cause was a stuck firing pin OR faulty ammunition ie: high primer.
lesson to you all who think your reloading recipe or sizing technique is "the path" ..... get the Kuhnhaussen m14 shop manual and your #### won't fall off.
It's very fornuate that Mr. Dogleg did not seriously injure himself, for that we can all be relieved. And it's excellent learning fodder for us all to pay attention to.
will still be interesting to get some technical feedback from Savage on this.... but i think we can safely put the "cause" debate to bed
I guess you didn't bother to read the thread....this happend when he pulled the trigger, it wasn't a slam fire----stuck firing pin, or high primer had nothing to do with it.
I guess we know who the "90% proof positive armchair gunsmith" is.
Thanks for coming out.
FWIW.....Tiriaq is a real deal gunsmith, so he knows what he's talking about.
Lets not turn this into a bashing contest alright? We are here to learn but sadly, at doglegs cost.
Yes, I'm certain we all agree that dogleg was lucky. It could have gone real bad on him.
And oh, btw...45acpking hosts west coast seminars on the M-14 quite regularly.
Yes, I'm certain we all agree that dogleg was lucky. It could have gone real bad on him.
And oh, btw...45acpking hosts west coast seminars on the M-14 quite regularly.
Dogleg,
I noticed one statement about someone mentioning that it is -30.
Looking at the date of the original post, and the appearance of lubricant on the action, how cold was it when the accident happened?
Is it possible that the bolt was sluggish on closing, or some other malfunction in the mechanism because of frozen lubricant?
I noticed one statement about someone mentioning that it is -30.
Looking at the date of the original post, and the appearance of lubricant on the action, how cold was it when the accident happened?
Is it possible that the bolt was sluggish on closing, or some other malfunction in the mechanism because of frozen lubricant?
My thoughts awhile back as well.If the firing pin channel had any lube in it it could have held on and not allowed the firing pin to float.Oh and I don't remember if any one asked this question but I realize this was the last round,how were the previous 4 fired?Slow or fast as you can pull the trigger?Inquiring minds need to know.Thanks
Quiet,
It popped on the 39th shot that day, so it worked a lot of times before it didn't work. I was working on getting the sight calibrated to the range indicators, then when satisfied with that set up a plate for my brother to rip off a mag at rapid fire. After his mag was empty I did the same thing except on my 5th shot important looking pieces fell off. If anything, you'd think the rifle was hot at the time of the KB. The good news is my boy was going to shoot it next, a kid could start flinching over something like that.
It popped on the 39th shot that day, so it worked a lot of times before it didn't work. I was working on getting the sight calibrated to the range indicators, then when satisfied with that set up a plate for my brother to rip off a mag at rapid fire. After his mag was empty I did the same thing except on my 5th shot important looking pieces fell off. If anything, you'd think the rifle was hot at the time of the KB. The good news is my boy was going to shoot it next, a kid could start flinching over something like that.
If you were squeezing the trigger rapidly, I wonder if somehow the hammer may have incorrectly released, and followed the bolt as it was closing on the 5th round? Hitting the firing pin before the bolt locked closed?
Maybe from a combination of fast trigger pull, recoil, and cold temperature mixed with cosmo in the trigger group? Any cosmo in the trigger group would be getting pretty sticky at those cold outdoor tempertures, even if the chamber area was hot from firing the gun.
Hitzy has apparently turned this into a pissing contest..... WTF
Maybe i need to stop trying to help folks ....... and naw ...... i'm not a liscenced gunsmith....... but tell that to all the guys who's rifles i've tuned and customized..... Holy fark Hitzy.... next thing yer gonna tell me yer dad is bigger than my dad......
the only thing seperating me from any other "gunsmith" is that i do not currently possess the business lisacence to behave as such legally.
I'll just leave you guys with this one....... and i apologize for trying to help, won't happen again
Maybe i need to stop trying to help folks ....... and naw ...... i'm not a liscenced gunsmith....... but tell that to all the guys who's rifles i've tuned and customized..... Holy fark Hitzy.... next thing yer gonna tell me yer dad is bigger than my dad......
the only thing seperating me from any other "gunsmith" is that i do not currently possess the business lisacence to behave as such legally.
I'll just leave you guys with this one....... and i apologize for trying to help, won't happen again
Hitzy has apparently turned this into a pissing contest..... WTF
Maybe i need to stop trying to help folks ....... and naw ...... i'm not a liscenced gunsmith....... but tell that to all the guys who's rifles i've tuned and customized..... Holy fark Hitzy.... next thing yer gonna tell me yer dad is bigger than my dad......
the only thing seperating me from any other "gunsmith" is that i do not currently possess the business lisacence to behave as such legally.
I'll just leave you guys with this one....... and i apologize for trying to help, won't happen again
Feel free to help and post your opinion, but at least read the thread. There were 148 posts assuming it was a slamfire & blaming the operator (you included), before anyone even bothered to ask the shooter what exactly happened.
Tinkering & tuning M14's doesn't make someone a gunsmith, but hell, I don't know what you do, so whatever. You haven't posted anything constructive to the discussion that's for sure.
maybe you should do more reading and less running off at the key board man. I'm in a testy mood this evenin...... sorry folks.
Having no idea what i do.... and have done..... to more firearms than i can count allows me to simply disregard your comments as horse####.......
I dedicate a vast amount of time being constructive with folks here and off the board. For the most part it is free giving of my time and tools. Not counting the once a month my house packs to capacity for one of my M14 GUNSMITHING clinics.
HOW MANY of the dozens and dozens of m14s rifle owners who's rifles i have personally touched...... have problems or complaints with said rifles??? Do i ask for a brownie badge.... public gratuities....... do i want a big bag full of ego boost....... no.
there's a tonne of m14s , and quite a few 1911's and .303 enfields out there with my work on them.... why don't you start a thread and ask the cgn population for a raise of hands?? I'd put my m14 builds up on the table with any of the best m14 builders in canada and let that be the judge.
I do this all for free, i do it for the fun of it man...... and you come along and just make this no fun.......
anyhow savage has pretty much confirmed that this was "reloader error" ....... I am having a hard time refraining from sayin i told you so...... but then i'd just be playin silly games with ya.
I don't rant like this often .... and i apologize to everyone...... but Hitzy , grow up man ....
Dude,
You need to chill out. 45ACPKING probably knows more about this platform than many gunsmiths, and more about the rifle than most on this board. He did try to help. He gave his opinion on what most likely caused the damage that he saw in the pictures. I don't see where you need to rip into his knowledge or skills without knowing something about him. I don't see where he blamed the operator, unless I missed a post, but WTF? One of the great things about this forum is the lack of pissing contests. Let's let it drop and get back to giving our opinions and sharing our knowledge.
I may have inadvertently started the pissing contest by pointing out that a certain percentage of statistics are made up. It was a joke. It is an old joke. That is why I posted a Smilie after my joke. But 45ACPKING is a friend of mine and I feel free to make those jokes. I would expect, given the limitations of typed conversation, that people would see a smilie and think "ah, a joke" to themselves, rather than piling on.
As far as posting something constructive, I saw the pictures. The edge of the locking lug was chipped off. That tends to indicate that the bolt was not fully closed when the round went off. If the bolt if fully engaged in the lugs, that force is sent straight backwards into the lugs. Very difficult to break off a corner. I don't know what happened and I look forward to the analysis of someone who has access to the firearm. However, from what we were told and shown 45ACPKING's analysis seems to be pretty good, and that is what we are doing here. Making educated guesses without access to the actual rifle. An entertaining and harmless debate.
Edit: based on new information
We now have Savage's analysis. He believes a combination of out of battery fire and possibly incorrectly sized ammunition caused the failure. Seems to me that's what 45ACPKING suggested. The defense rests. Too bad we had to have a pissing match while we waited.
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