Northern Ontario first nations want to limit moose hunting.
- Thread starter Thumper69
- Start date
canadaman30
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Far from the City
When my family has FN drive through their street every year selling fish to the white folk from the back of their truck, fresh from the river, you call that respecting the game? I wasn't aware FN could kill and sell on the street.. This is fact not opinion.
You could call a CO and have it dealt with properly. Doesn't mean every first nation and the membership are all the same. Obviously some bad apples in every bunch. Sick of seeing all FAN being called down on the account of a small percentage of people who bend and/or break the rules.
Over the years, I too have seen exactly what you are talking about. However, I don't think it's fair to say FN are the ones guilty of doing that. No matter which race, there are abusers and adze-holes. What I found distressing in the past s that many reserves tolerated this, under the guise of "treaty rights". Fortunately, over the past several years, this has begun to change. I certainly hope it continues to the point where bands manage wildlife properly. Just as not all Natives are drunks and lazy, neither are they all the Disney-like characters that spew the Circle of Life crap. They are exactly like the rest of the human race. Some excellent, most good, some garbage - exactly like whites, blacks, Muslims, orientals, you name it.
I agree - The problem is with the Federal and Provincial authorities applying the wildlife statutes equally and fairly for all Canadians.
I admire and respect the initiative that Brunswick House FN has taken and hope it's a model for all FN groups to adopt across Canada.
Sakoman .308
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
It would be great if everyone helps preserve the herds so they will always be here. Good on them.
As far as I'm concerned, they don't necessarily have to be applied equally and fairly. It should be determined by the capacity of the herd to sustain hunting pressure. I would like to see subsistence hunting allowed to all people that live in remote areas, regardless of race, and I would have no objection to those people getting the lion's share of the tags. If they decide it's more beneficial to give up some of their tags to bring in tourists and their dollars, that should be a local decision. Who was it that said fair does not necessarily mean equal. And, regardless of race, anyone caught selling or wasting game should be castrated with a rusty butter knife, have the wound cauterized with a red-hot coal shovel, and given their testicles to wear in a little pouch around their necks.
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
With intensive management and all groups playing by the rules there would be plenty of game for all. Again, management is the keyword. Greed, lack of education, arrogance and simple stupidity will ensure no large ungulates for any stakeholders... Kudos for a First Nation taking the initiative but I see none of this here in Manitoba...
It's coming..... I know about some of the issues in Manitoba and elsewhere. Many of us in the Metis Nation and First Nations are pushing for change and a new attitude. Change is hard for some people , especially some of the more militant and disenfranchised. Not making excuses , just relaying truth.
not sure if that is directed at me or not but I'll try and answer from what I understand things to be in BC. Other provinces are different because BC was set aside early on due to it's resources and handled treaties in a totally different manner than the rest of the country. It's what has led to some major issues here in this province..... but that's a different conversation hehehe
If you have a treaty with the govt and are part of a band , the band decides what animals are to be harvested on thier predetermined/defined territory. For the same first nations member wanting to hunt in a different FN territory, they must get permission from the band. Licenses and tags are not required.
However..... if the same FN wants to hunt in an area and season outside thier territory , say for moose in a limitted entry season/area , they must submit an LEH application and indicate indigenous status and thier status number.
Non status FN/Inuit and Metis pay to play like everybody else as far as I know.
For myself, being a member of the BC Metis Nation, I can apply for what is called a Metis Harvesters Card. Every applicant must be a member in good standing and thier Indigenous heritage must be proven and accepted by the community. I have to provide detailed accounts of my harvest as a matter of condition. The Harvesters Card only allows me to hunt birds essentially, that's it. For everything else in BC, fishing , hunting, firewood gathering ect ect I need the same credentials and licenses as everyone else and I pay the exact same. I do however have permission from more than one band , to harvest outside of the BC wildlife act if I am hunting with a band member. Generally the bulk of these harvests are for the freezers of the very elderly and sedindtary members of thier communities and I have seen this harvest help non native people surrounding those communities.
anyhow, I'm not 100% educated on what FN can and can't do with hunting and fishing, the above is simply how I understand things in BC.... and I'm making no claim that info is 100% correct.
In Ontario, at least for non-status people, you buy your license, enter the draw, and then find out if you were successful. For deer and moose, you get a tag (although I heard that has changed/is changing for moose). For deer, you automatically get an antlered deer tag, and for moose, you got a calf tag. Not sure if it's similar for elk. Also, in years of plenty of deer, you could buy additional tags.
Good. Happy to hear that. I would just be happy to see native people stop reliving the past, and live for the future. Otherwise, it's going to be eternal misery.
I can give you a small personal example. My maternal grandmother died when my Mom was 7. She had a sister 5 and a brother 3. The other 6 were all older. The three youngest kids were placed in an orphanage. Things were really tough. My mom and her sister were not allowed to see their brother, because he was on the boys' side. They got to go home in the summer for a few weeks. They had 1 nun looking after about 45 kids. My mom and her brother did not enjoy it, but they saw that it was not all bad - they got health care, an education, 3 square meals a day (not the best of foods, but 3 a day nevertheless). The majority if kids at that time, in rural Quebec, did not get that - just like I'm pretty sure the majority of Native kids on reserves didn't. My aunt get dwelling on the past, and died a bitter, unhappy person. My mom and uncle did not enjoy what they lived through, but they made sure we didn't have to go through anything similar, but they moved on, and lived relatively happy lives. Just saying - nothing will make the past right, but the past is just that, past.
For myself, I want to see the corporations be responsible for making sure the resources they harvest off the land and the condition they leave the land in afterwards, benefits the indigenous communities who have traditional shared that land. I do not believe the tax payer should have to fund what corporations have done and what governments have allowed. It's thier collective fault that we all as canadians are in this quagmire.
As a hunter and a canadian, regardless of anything else, I stand for protecting all canadian's rights to hunt and gather under the conservation approach. I believe that non indiginous hunters are an essential economic driver to sustainable rural communities and sustainable habitat. I believe we ALL must come together and force the governments to then force the corporate entities that have logged, mined, fished and sucked gas outta the ground to repair the land and fund the indigenous communites thier business has affected. This is happening in some parts of BC and is a growing trend where indigenous groups work hand in hand on projects important to the benefit of everyone. Anyhow, I don't wanna be a poster boy here and am just trying to bring some positive influence. Maybe i don't do the best job of that sometimes I dunno.
what i do know is that every where i am going in moose country in BC , an invasive tree/bush is taking over and replacing moose browse at an astonishing level. This is being enabled by the transfer and spread of seeds and pollen in the tires and on the equipment of logging equipment.... how else could it spread so prolifically across the province. The forestry industry needs to be recreating the marshlands they destroy when they mess of the drainage and they need to be replanting an equal or greater amount of moose browse IE: willows ..... and they simply are not doing that. The invasive plants are choking out the willows and with thier root systems, stealing the water from the native plants that feed the moose. That invasive plant is not digestable by deer and moose , yet is being allowed to proliferate in areas immediatley following logging activity. The only place in BC I see the stands of willows being protected in the clear cutting is in Burns Lake BC, where the land/trees currently being logged is owned outright by first nations. This issue of not replacing moose browse , "I feel strongly" , is leading to a major decline in otherwise healthy moose populations here in "moose country"
As a hunter and a canadian, regardless of anything else, I stand for protecting all canadian's rights to hunt and gather under the conservation approach. I believe that non indiginous hunters are an essential economic driver to sustainable rural communities and sustainable habitat. I believe we ALL must come together and force the governments to then force the corporate entities that have logged, mined, fished and sucked gas outta the ground to repair the land and fund the indigenous communites thier business has affected. This is happening in some parts of BC and is a growing trend where indigenous groups work hand in hand on projects important to the benefit of everyone. Anyhow, I don't wanna be a poster boy here and am just trying to bring some positive influence. Maybe i don't do the best job of that sometimes I dunno.
what i do know is that every where i am going in moose country in BC , an invasive tree/bush is taking over and replacing moose browse at an astonishing level. This is being enabled by the transfer and spread of seeds and pollen in the tires and on the equipment of logging equipment.... how else could it spread so prolifically across the province. The forestry industry needs to be recreating the marshlands they destroy when they mess of the drainage and they need to be replanting an equal or greater amount of moose browse IE: willows ..... and they simply are not doing that. The invasive plants are choking out the willows and with thier root systems, stealing the water from the native plants that feed the moose. That invasive plant is not digestable by deer and moose , yet is being allowed to proliferate in areas immediatley following logging activity. The only place in BC I see the stands of willows being protected in the clear cutting is in Burns Lake BC, where the land/trees currently being logged is owned outright by first nations. This issue of not replacing moose browse , "I feel strongly" , is leading to a major decline in otherwise healthy moose populations here in "moose country"
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well said papaclaude and very true.
- Location
- NFA country
Not likely.
Some might be intimidated by the hush up demands of politically correct cowards but the truth is the truth and its time somebody faced facts and dealt with the reality version of why moose numbers have plummeted in some areas.
Time to speak up and save the moose and other game species being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness and cowardice on the part of the governments and their enforcement agencies.
Back to the topic at hand initiated by the O.P. The last time I hunted moose in Ontario was on Hwy 655 north of Timmins. We were scouting the seismic lines and power lines. Right on one of the power lines was 5 dead cows and calves that were killed by one pickup of native hunters. There was no open season for Cows or calves. This is the type of practise that has to stop if there is any hope of maintaining any kind of sustainable moose hunt in that area or anywhere for that matter.
Last year in B.C. one of the locals where I was hunting told me of three moose that were killed on their private property during the winter outside of any open season. It was once again native hunters. You know the area 45 ACPKING. Once again, this type of practice has to stop in order to maintain any kind of population for future generations. Both of these two areas once had more moose than people. Now they are hurting badly. First Nations has to start limiting the number of animals they kill or soon there will be nothing to hunt.
I do want to acknowledge that disease and wolf predation is reducing moose populations in the area faster than human interaction. But that is mostly out of our hands thanks to the NDP in B.C.
Last year in B.C. one of the locals where I was hunting told me of three moose that were killed on their private property during the winter outside of any open season. It was once again native hunters. You know the area 45 ACPKING. Once again, this type of practice has to stop in order to maintain any kind of population for future generations. Both of these two areas once had more moose than people. Now they are hurting badly. First Nations has to start limiting the number of animals they kill or soon there will be nothing to hunt.
I do want to acknowledge that disease and wolf predation is reducing moose populations in the area faster than human interaction. But that is mostly out of our hands thanks to the NDP in B.C.
I t was never proven that it was FN hunters Frank but I hear you. I do know that locally there is grumblings about a large group of "religious folk" living in small cabins they built to avoid bylaws and they are apparently harvesting animals year round. I bumped into a young fella on his quad maybe 2 km from thier property on the Wilcox. You have been up the road i was on and I was up there with the wife for her bull draw in 4pt buck season. The kid said he was hunting for "whatever the lord provides" LOL and that his dad has a moose draw. The kid was probably 18? 19?
I called the CO when i got home and reported it and was told there have been several complaints and to keep my eyes open up there. So I wouldn't be quick to lay it on the first nations here. The chief of the canim band is pretty strict when it comes to hunting here and does have pretty firm control over the bands hunting practices. Bad apples in every bunch tho so I can't speak to everyone.
Funny story , phil was up here last year at tail end of any buck.... or was it year before..... anyhow, we are driving back from one of my deer spots and pass a truck full of young native fellas. They warned us about a pile of does standing on the road ahead..... None of em would grow horns they laughed and off they went on thier way. We round the next bend and sure enough, there's a small herd of 7 to 9 deer on the road. Well, drunk or stoned, they totally missed the 2 bucks.... albeit they were smallies. So Phil, jumped out and smacked one with his weatherby and bang, flop, guts out and into the rig LOL
I will reiterate, from living in moose country and spending a lot of time fishing, prospecting and hunting, including preseason scouting.... the willows are gone, replaced by this foreign tree. Moose don't live where thier primary food sources have been removed by logging and not restored. Poaching is a problem but moose habitat not being replenished and renewed by industry is something no one seems to want to talk about. I suppose that is a different discussion. No one wants to talk about the carnage of road kill on the highways either. I counted 46 hits on my way up here yesterday..... 100mile to topley. On the 27th I counted over 50 hits... deer, bear, pretty sure a few moose. That's a lot of dead animals in 2 x 8 hour drives. I wonder what the yearly totals for the trucking industry are for roadkilled wildlife across canada..... that is also another discussion that is not taking place.
