Notice to S&W M&P 15-22 Rifle Owners

So are they just starting to make this #### up?

Any way to appeal? Should we be writing to our MPs saying that these arbitrary rules and RCMP "interpretation" of the law is making over 2000 (S&W 15-22 owners), and if you throw the Butler Creek mags for the Ruger Charger into it, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of gun owners into potential criminals because they are now in possession of a prohib device?
 
blaxsun said:
This is a bit of a twist... apparently the S&W M&P15-22 magazines are considered "dual purpose", ie: they work in both the M&P15-22 rifle and M&P15-22P pistol. It is apparently that fact (and not the wording or part number, per say) that will make them prohibited unless pinned or otherwise limited to 10 rounds.

That being said, what about any of the aftermarket magazines (drum, etc.) for the M&P15-22 rifle? Even if they're made as/advertised for the rifle only. Also prohibited. All of them.

And then the next obvious question then becomes: so what happens to the magazines for any other rimfire rifle that is released and imported in a pistol (aka: handgun) version? Guess...
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So... by extension... are you saying that would mean that Glock handguns (9mm Glock 17 magazines) will need to be pinned to 5 rounds because those magazines are also "dual purpose" and fit a variety of "rifles" making the Glock 17 magazine a "dual purpose" magazine as well?

Mark
 
luke s said:
hmmmm but doesnt the ruger charger pistol have the same action as the 10/22??
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Honestly, I don't know the answer to that, sorry (the Ruger didn't come up in the discussion).

philchau said:
So are they just starting to make this s**t up?

Any way to appeal? Should we be writing to our MPs saying that these arbitrary rules and RCMP "interpretation" of the law is making over 2000 (S&W 15-22 owners), and if you throw the Butler Creek mags for the Ruger Charger into it, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of gun owners into potential criminals because they are now in possession of a prohib device?
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This is definitely the case for the S&W M&P15-22/22P. A few other models were discussed that will apparently fall into the same category (HK, Colt, etc.)
 
Questar said:
So... by extension... are you saying that would mean that Glock handguns (9mm Glock 17 magazines) will need to be pinned to 5 rounds because those magazines are also "dual purpose" and fit a variety of "rifles" making the Glock 17 magazine a "dual purpose" magazine as well?

Mark
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That thought crossed my mind as well, and I didn't think it was necessarily a good idea to point out (if you PM me your phone number I'll be happy to share any details that I can't post here).
 
Thanks for the additional insight, Mark. I just wanted to clarify that the emphasis on my post was with respect to the new rimfire rifle/pistols where the magazines were specifically designed to work with both (there are a few models that apparently have the potential to fall into the same scenario in the future). Maybe with everything on the M&P15-22 coming to light this is something that can be avoided in the future.
 
philchau said:
So thus where does this leave the Black Dog 50-round drums?
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The Black Dog 50 round drum is unaffected by the S&W 25 Round 15-22 magazine issue and ruling.

First, because the magazine was never designed and manufactured for the S&W Handgun it is therefore NOT classified as a Handgun magazine and NOT limited in capacity... it is classified as a rim-fire rifle magazine.

Further, technically the Black Dog drum magazine is actually designed and manufactured for the AR 15-22 Rifle and various ceiner style conversion kits. It is that drum magazine (stamped right on it AR 15-22 Conversion) that is used along with a modified Tower Kit that allows the drum magazine to be used on the S&W M&P 15-22 firearm. There is also a tower kit that allows the drum to be used on a 10-22 Ruger. The drum was designed and marketed BEFORE S&W ever announced the M&P 15-22 Rifle let alone the pistol... so it pre-dates their very existance.

The law is very specific... classification of the magazine is based on what firearm the magazine was "designed and manufactured to be used in" and is NOT affected by what firearm it is subsequently inserted into.

Mark
 
BRAMEL said:
The big question for me is can Black Dog make us some 25 round mags? I'm not fond of the big ugly drum mags.
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We spoke to Black Dog about this earlier today and they were surprisingly receptive to the idea. We have asked them to make a 26 round magazine specifically for the M&P 15-22 Rifle and they are willing... but this is not a fast process.

Could be looking at 3 to 6 months before they are in our hands (requires tooling, prototypes, testing, and final production). Having done the tower kit development already for the drum does make some difference and cuts down some of the work but it still takes time to do what will be needed.

Mark
 
Questar said:
We spoke to Black Dog about this earlier today and they were surprisingly receptive to the idea. We have asked them to make a 26 round magazine specifically for the M&P 15-22 Rifle and they are willing... but this is not a fast process.

Could be looking at 3 to 6 months before they are in our hands (requires tooling, prototypes, testing, and final production). Having done the tower kit development already for the drum does make some difference and cuts down some of the work but it still takes time to do what will be needed.

Mark
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Well I suppose this is the best piece of news i've heard all day. Jesus, what a frikken nightmare.
 
scianna54 said:
Not entirely true.

Badger Arms and other dealers have many rifles AND 25 round magazines in stock.

Questar has 0


So, what do think the effect of this "announcement" will have on Questar?


What effect on the stocking dealers?


Hmmmm

..
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Yes, entirely true. Re read my post as to him having stock that he CAN'T sell since he has no FRT number, so of course he is not going to be selling something/listed on his site that HE CAN'T LEGALLY SELL. Really???
 
all things being equel, the rcmp had almost a year for assessment of the m&p 15-22. all purchases were in good faith and under goverment scruteny. maybe if at a stroke of the pen they make thousands of canadians criminals... there could be a good case for all affected to receive a prohibited license ?

something to think about
 
cal_h said:
all things being equel, the rcmp had almost a year for assessment of the m&p 15-22. all purchases were in good faith and under goverment scruteny. maybe if at a stroke of the pen they make thousands of canadians criminals... there could be a good case for all affected to receive a prohibited license ?

something to think about
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There is no prohibited license for magazines. The gun is fine, the mags are not. If the Black Dog mags become a reality and are not prohibited by the RCMP (regardless of merit or not), then they will be the answer and it will be the same as buying an AR with one factory 5/30 mag and then simply buying a pile of LAR mags to use.

Hell will freeze over before this issue gets big enough to force an OIC that creates a new class of prohib for the 25 round mags. There is simply no compelling reason to do anything from the RCMP's perspective. No property is being confiscated (assuming they allow pinning/blocking to 10 rounds) and no one has been financially injured by this ruling.

Mark
 
mmattockx said:
There is no prohibited license for magazines.

No property is being confiscated (assuming they allow pinning/blocking to 10 rounds) and no one has been financially injured by this ruling.

Mark
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How many extra mags did you buy? I bought a SH*T TON, way more than I could 'reasonably' need to be honest, and they are all S&W Mags.....

So now I have to pin 12 mags....... BS! When I bought them they were Legal, and they still are........ untill they take them away......
 
notsorichguy said:
How many extra mags did you buy? I bought a SH*T TON, way more than I could 'reasonably' need to be honest, and they are all S&W Mags.....

So now I have to pin 12 mags....... BS! When I bought them they were Legal, and they still are........ untill they take them away......
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I didn't buy any because I hadn't bought the rifle yet. Yours are still legal, assuming you pin them to the reduced capacity. You are not out your property at all, but they can't be used as originally designed. Unless pinning is prohibitively expensive, there isn't any money involved.

Is it ####ty? Yes. Is it unreasonable? I think so. But a court will not and that is all that matters here. Just because you and I are pissed off doesn't really affect them one way or the other. They certainly won't care that a BS RCMP decision has reduced your rimfire fun to 10 rounds at a time instead of the previous 25. Knowing how left most judges are, they probably think you shouldn't be allowed to have guns anyway.

The only answer to this is to get a CPC majority elected and then hold their feet to the fire for revisions to our idiotic firearms laws. I don't know how far we can go with a CPC majority, but I do know that every year we spend without a Lib government is one more year that we get to keep our guns.

Mark
 
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