Notice to S&W M&P 15-22 Rifle Owners

notsorichguy said:
Good then, I'll go to court....... I'm a tradesman it will not affect my work (other than a few days off)..... let them explain to a judge why I am there.....
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They will explain to the judge why you are there & the judge will either agree and you loose everything (they'll just keep it all as it has already been confiscated, or the judge will disagree and you will get everything back all used and scratched up without any recourse or compensation. Let us know how you make out should it come to that.

pepsicola said:
so if black dog stamped on the side of their 25 round magazine or S&W stamped on the side of one of their magazines "FOR RIFLE USE ONLY", and made the mag with a different colour for easy identification, would that fix the problem
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Yes, but S&W wouldn't need to make it in a different colour, just a different part number as Mark said, wouldn't even need the "Rifle Use Only", as Mark said, just a new part number and never the same number as one shown in a Pistol. But a different colour, like gun metal gray, may just be helpful.
 
pepsicola said:
so if black dog stamped on the side of thier 25 round magazine or S&W stampedon the side of one of thier magazines "FOR RIFLE USE ONLY", and made the mag with a different colour for easy identification

would that fix the problem
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You cannot take a magazine that's already designed and manufactured for a handgun, stamp "rifle" on the side and expect it to be classified as a rifle magazine. But you can change the mold and produce a new magazine (almost identical to the original)... identify that newly designed and manufactured magazine as a rifle magazine and then it would be classified as a rifle magazine. RCMP already made that ruling a long time ago (specifically the Beretta CX4 Storm rifle magazines).

Suffice to say that S&W has the ability (if they want) to produce a magazine that would be classified as a S&W M&P 15-22 Rifle Magazine and such a magazine could contain more than 10 shots here in Canada.

Mark
 
Questar said:
Not true.... there is no requirement that they be advertised at all. It more the other way around... if it's advertisted then it can't be advertised as a pistol magazine otherwise it would be classified as a pistol magazine.
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Well more accurately then, they can use advertisements in determining the legal status of the mags. They don't have to, they can use pretty much anything they want. In this particular case S&W has made it clear they are pistol mags, but if it wasn't clear, RCMP could look at ads or whatever they wanted to frankly to come to a conclusion. There's nothing in law that says they must have x piece of information before reaching a conclusion.

The point is that the method they use is somewhat subjective, because otherwise the SIG-Sauer 522 wouldn't be prohibited. What I meant was that it would certainly help a great deal if any magazines were advertised for the rifle only.
 
cybershooters said:
So I can be prosecuted not only for illegal possession but illegal transfer. Brilliant idea.
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really? they will know that I have them?? maybe the notice will say that its legal to pin them, simply bringing them in for destruction is admitting defeat.

but of course they are yours, do what you want, it was just a suggestion
 
Okay...Lets not make me have to call in the serious mods fellas. You know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Perhaps a few deletions here and there would help this Flatbrimmer NOT have to nuke this and hand out infractions. Please consider this a broad warning and help me out guys...I dont like this either but we must follow the site rules etc.

Carry on...
 
wicked_police said:
You don't know what you're talking about. Subjectivity has nothing to do with the decisions.
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I respectfully disagree. The regulations demand subjectivity because important terms are not defined. Case in point - "variant." There is no definition in the regs or enabling statute. Variant is anything the classifier wants it to be. That's why the rifle was deemed restricted in the first place.
 
Well I was bored tonight and decided to see if I could pin one of these mags to 10.5 rounds... took 10mins and was quick and easy. this mag is the one my 10 year old daughter will use. I'll hold off doing anymore just yet. Turned out really well, perfect function of the mag...just holds 10.5 rounds now. If it all goes south I'll be able to do the rest in half the time now since I know where to put the hole.

Sorry for the bad pics.


IMG_0427.jpg

IMG_0426.jpg
 
cybershooters said:
Well more accurately then, they can use advertisements in determining the legal status of the mags. They don't have to, they can use pretty much anything they want. In this particular case S&W has made it clear they are pistol mags, but if it wasn't clear, RCMP could look at ads or whatever they wanted to frankly to come to a conclusion.
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Just out of curiosity, can anyone identify a piece of Smith advertising that specifically refers to it as a pistol magazine? Their web page simply says "25 rnd detachable magazine." The page listing the magazines doesn't specifically refer to them as pistol magazines either.
 
I dont own one but would customizing your gun and the magazine so they only fit each other solve this? Like why couldnt you make a notch in your gun just at the rim of where the magazine goes into the gun and on the magazine itself glue or plastic weld or even use a screw or something. Just so they only fit each other and that magazine cant be used in anything else... Just a thought
 
Dacton said:
I dont own one but would customizing your gun and the magazine so they only fit each other solve this? Like why couldnt you make a notch in your gun just at the rim of where the magazine goes into the gun and on the magazine itself glue or plastic weld or even use a screw or something. Just so they only fit each other and that magazine cant be used in anything else... Just a thought
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No. Part 4 s.5 (c) of the regulations say the following alteration is required:

"in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as cement or an epoxy or other glue."

In other words, the magazine has to be permanently modified so that it only accepts 10 cartridges (regardless of whose gun it's used in.)

On the other hand, it's probably a bit premature to be modifying magazines since:

a) nothing official has yet been announced; and
b) it's unclear who can alter them, who approves the alteration, etc, etc.

Overall, the absurdity of this whole classification business is breathtaking. There hasn't been a bigger waste of public resources since medieval times when scholars were employed to calculate how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.
 
#404850000

I have two SW15-22 Mags. One has stamped 22LR and the other is stamped 22LR 25 rounds. I don't see a part# on either one of them. NO Number 404850000. No Part # at all. Is it only ones that are stamped 404850000 that are in question. Can someone please clarify this for me. How can you say it only effects Part# 404850000 if if that number is not on it. How am I to know if the ones I have are in question and how is the CFO going to tell me the one I have are bad if ther is no part# on it.
 
JimV said:
No. Part 4 s.5 (c) of the regulations say the following alteration is required:

"in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as cement or an epoxy or other glue."

In other words, the magazine has to be permanently modified so that it only accepts 10 cartridges (regardless of whose gun it's used in.)

On the other hand, it's probably a bit premature to be modifying magazines since:

a) nothing official has yet been announced; and
b) it's unclear who can alter them, who approves the alteration, etc, etc.

Overall, the absurdity of this whole classification business is breathtaking. There hasn't been a bigger waste of public resources since medieval times when scholars were employed to calculate how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.
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Oh well thats bs, they need to come out with a 100 round drum magazine to piss off whoevers stupid idea this was in the first place...
 
weenog said:
I have two SW15-22 Mags. One has stamped 22LR and the other is stamped 22LR 25 rounds. I don't see a part# on either one of them. NO Number 404850000. No Part # at all. Is it only ones that are stamped 404850000 that are in question. Can someone please clarify this for me. How can you say it only effects Part# 404850000 if if that number is not on it. How am I to know if the ones I have are in question and how is the CFO going to tell me the one I have are bad if ther is no part# on it.
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yea, i'm in the same boat. can't i just load 10 rounds and call it even?
 
Calling CFO and hearing that there is no such information in their system and talking to weapons technician, who stated there is no such limitation on the 22LR Mags has given me assurance. I understand the intend of the post was to educate M&P 15-22 Owners of potential implications but it seemed to cause unnecessary confusion and distress.

My final word would be, there is no word from the RCMP about the magazine owners hence I only see this thread for a highly entertainment value. Speaking of part # now being stamped on the Mags, now I do entertain that idea. Go here, click there, click on additional information on FRT system merely defeats the purpose for information gathering. I would say if there is anything there would be a grace period for amnesty - enough with the fear mongering.
 
Canada is a safer place today. Just recieved my legal 50 rd. drum from Questar(fast delivery), so I can get rid of my 25rd. 'Prohibitted Device' for my 15-22. We can all sleep peacefully tonight, and I can have twice the fun at the range, tomorrow!
 
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