OK - AR15 Guru's talk to me

Riflechair

Riflechair

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Looks like I'm going to buy a new 20" 1:9 twist Armalite M15A4 HBar.
It seems that I can buy a new model from Wolverine cheaper than buying a used model here in CGN. What the heck over? A new AR15 will cost me $1500 (inclusive of shipping & taxes) and includes a few rudimental assessories such as sight options and two mags + cleaning kit.

Anyhow I digress.

Are there any affordable accuracy improvements that can be made to these rifles or is it even worth it? According to Armalite these rifles will consistently shoot 2" at 100 metres. That isn't terribly impressive to be honest. I have 60 year old lee enfields that can consistently achieve that kind of accuracy.
ca_m15a4_rifle.jpg

So what are the tricks of the trade? Every rifle has them. The norinco M14S wants a NM op rod guide and harmonics ballanced, The lee enfield wants free floating and centre bedding..... What does the AR15 want straight out of the box? This will be my first black rifle - I'm sooooo excited, but I am looking to you for some guidance.

The ultimate objective is to beat Longshot at BCRA service rifle (when ever that actually happens). I'm not going to achieve this with my Ranger Rifle so I might as well join the 21st century. PS: Thanks Ryan for the inspiration. However considering the service rifle guys are running pretty much stock C7A1's (except the albertans whom seem to insist on running hot rodded SIGS).

Talk to me friends.......
Riflechair
www.riflechair.com
 
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The quickest way to improve accuracy with an AR is to get the trigger improved by a COMPETENT GUNSMITH, then worry about free floats, and the many many accessories that can be added.
 
Reaper said:
The quickest way to improve accuracy with an AR is to get the trigger improved by a COMPETENT GUNSMITH, then worry about free floats, and the many many accessories that can be added.
Click to expand...
What kind of trigger work would one normally get done?
 
the_kiD said:
I dont want to start trolling but...here i go...
I've been to a gun shop and they said that the Armalite quality went down.

i'd go with a bushmaster if i was you.
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Gun shop opinions.... nuff' said. Armalite is a quality AR manufacturer. A 20" heavy barrel should shoot 1 MOA, stock. I had a 20" RRA A4 and it was more accurate than I am. To increase accuracy without any smithing you can choose a 2-stage NM trigger (available as an option on Rock River rifles), and you can always upgrade to the superb Geissele 2-stage. You could also free-float the barrel by replacing the stock handguards with a wide array of aftermarket handguards. And be sure to get a flat-top model, gives you greater flexibility with optics. Any of the CGN sponsoring dealers should take care of you, Questar has RRA and LMT, Arms East carries Stag and CMMG uppers and Wolverine distributes Armalite. Hope this helps and welcome to the black gun club, PM me for the secret handshake.
 
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Buy lots of practice ammo and work on your positions like: standing, kneeling, sitting, standing alert to kneeling. Trust me, all the space guns at the National Level don't help you win. Don't believe me ? Examine the NSCC Grand Aggregates. You will hardly find any spaceguns in the '550' club. Most of these are rack grade or maybe some selected C7A1's and A2's with factory ELCAN's shooting issued ball ammo.

Hope this helps you save your money and also ensures that yer #### don't fall off.... :evil:
 
Two stage triggers are great, and will definitely help improve accuracy, however there are certain competitions that prohibit them IIRC. I'm sure some one better versed in all the differing rules and regulations can jump in here and give you the low-down.
 
My thoughts, in no particular order:

Whatever trigger you go with, you should ensure it doesn't brake any lighter than 2.5 kg for DCRA service conditions. I use a tuned up Colt, and a couple of RRA two stage triggers - decent for not a lot of money.

Wolverine & Armalite are both excellent choices, I'd recommend one with a 1:8 twist NM barrel -it'll shoot out of the box and if you are inclined they can probably do up one with the Armalite NM trigger too.

If you use a sling, get a floater -either a bloop tube or one that sits under the handguard will do. If you need tacticool, keep in mind not all rails will float the barrel.

Get a flat top, you'll want to run optics. I'm really diggin' the Nightforce NXS 2.5x10 mildot scopes.

Get good 30 round mags. you'll want to ride the mag on the ground in the prone -you won't do this with 20s.

If you aren't already, get into handloading .223
While I agree practice is king, good handloads will outperform ball at the 300, 400 & 500m mounds, especially in the wind.
Another plus, handloading may well afford you more ammo for practice.

I run a 20" HB, but guys I shoot with do well with 16 inchers. All down to personal preference, but I like to think the extra velocity helps.

Good luck with your choice!
 
Keep in mind that your standard front post covers more than 2 inches of target at 100 yards. Meaning your abililty to consistantly acquire your sight picture so as to produce groups under 2" at 100 would be difficult. With optics, not a real issue...

TDC
 
^X2 on the above.

The Armalite 2-stage trigger is well regarded. A no brainer of an upgrade.

The stock Armalite single stage triggers I've fired have had good triggers, but a 2-stage match type trigger is IMO the best and first upgrade to a rifle.

Freefloating doesn't do much when when you're grinding through a long single stage stock AR-15 trigger pull. I can clearly see watch my reticle moving in concert with a gritty trigger when shooting for groups.

If not a two-stage (and the only excuse is $), what Reaper said, if you're going to compete with it, get a trigger job from a good gunsmith.

Agree with TDC on sights and also accuracy, you can only see so much with a standard AR front sight post. With optics, you'll do better, particularly that SS barrel.
Kid, :bsFlag:
 
Thanks folks
I'm not new to NSC shooting
Just looking to even the playing field from my lee enfield
I trust the 2 stage trigger
Its what I know
strange to hear it referred to as a NM adjustment
But thats cool with me.

Looks like I might stick with the M15A4
Sounds like a nice compromise

Richard
 
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Riflechair said:
Looks like I might stick with the M15A4
Sounds like a nice compromise

Richard
Click to expand...

Richard, I don't believe you will be compromising anything by your choice of an M15A4. Bolt on a half decent optic, shoot half decent ammo and you have what the best of them win with.

I have competed with the Armalite M15A4 (with the 16" mid-length barrel) with a good trigger,, and I would say it is probably the ideal setup for the Cdn Service Rifle discipline.

Good luck with it,, and see you in Ottawa at NSCC.
Shelldrake
 
the_kiD said:
I dont want to start trolling but...here i go...
I've been to a gun shop and they said that the Armalite quality went down.

i'd go with a bushmaster if i was you.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that they had a pile of Bushmasters on the shelf. :rolleyes: Frmo what I've seen, the quality of the Armalites have been improving even more lately. And with Wolverine handling them there are no issues with getting any possible problems sorted out.
Be9ing budget minded, I have used a RRA 2-stage trigger to tighten things up on a couple of my rifles. They just drop in without any tweaking required. It is important to keep them clean as they do get a with wonky with not resetting when they get gunked up. There is also a tiny little roll pin on them that is known to fail occasionally. I've seen one being sold somewhere that was retrofitted with a solid pin to remedy that.
Another really simple modification is to just swap off the front sight post. The stock ones are quite thick and do cover up much of the target at longer distances. I've go some much thinner posts on a couple of my rifles. They do not block out as much of the target. The downside with them is that standard range determination of unknown distances based on how much of the man sized target is covered by the post is difficult.
The Stag 4R wouldn't be a bad rifle to take a look at either.
 
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