Old Time Grizzly Guns

My grandfather told me of harvesting tons of moose with a 57 Snyder. WHen he got his hands on a 44-40, he was so happy (an old Henry brass rifle, which he traded for a 303 after the war. Efficiency before sentiment, I guess). The 44-40 was light years ahead of the Snider. More shots, and a better brush gun, It could also shoot further than the 57!!!. As far as those guys that say a 30-30 isn't big enough for deer sized game, I've seen dozens of moose taken with them, and none have gone further than about 75 yards when given the time to bleed out. Even a grizzly, shot through the fuel pump with a 30-30 will be deader than one shot through the leg with a 458 Lott. Where I would want a lot of horsepower would be in a serious social engagement with a critter. Then, I'd opt for a big chunk of lead, the bigger, the better.
 
Papaclaude said:
My grandfather told me of harvesting tons of moose with a 57 Snyder. WHen he got his hands on a 44-40, he was so happy (an old Henry brass rifle, which he traded for a 303 after the war. Efficiency before sentiment, I guess). The 44-40 was light years ahead of the Snider. More shots, and a better brush gun, It could also shoot further than the 57!!!. As far as those guys that say a 30-30 isn't big enough for deer sized game, I've seen dozens of moose taken with them, and none have gone further than about 75 yards when given the time to bleed out. Even a grizzly, shot through the fuel pump with a 30-30 will be deader than one shot through the leg with a 458 Lott. Where I would want a lot of horsepower would be in a serious social engagement with a critter. Then, I'd opt for a big chunk of lead,
the bigger, the better.
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This is along my thoughts for sure .. My grandfather carried a 56-50 spencer .. an oversize rim fire version of a 22 ,, he killed a lot of game with that for sure .. People have killed a pile of moose with a 30-30 too and when the 38-55 was necked down too 30-30 people thought they had a real killing machine .. Today there is many BETTER choices ,, If a 30-30 will kill a moose i am sure a 300 win mag is better ,, I believe in the old saying ,, soup is better than no soup when people tell me too much gun makes too much damage.. BUT because grand dad killed a moose with a 30-30 they think that is the way too go.. It SEEMS people want too use the very lest gun they can.. and get away with it .. Even if all you own is a 30-30 i am sure You can get a better gun too use if you wanted too .. I would gladly lend my 300 win or 338 win too a guy too take moose or bear hunting before I seen him in the woods with a 30-30 ..
 
Mike, you saying that hunters using a 30-30 wishing they had a bigger gun, was not always true. In the meat hunting, depression years, a hunter took a shot at an elk, worked the action, fired and his Winchester 30-30 blew up!
He bundled up everything, including the empty from the first shot and sent it to the Dominion Ammunition Co. After thorough inspection they said the ammunition was to blame, as there was no powder in the first one fired, so the bullet stuck in the barrel and the second shot blew the rifle up.
The company sent the hunter a Winchester catalogue and told him to pick out any rifle and they would buy it for him.
So, the hunter picked out a 30-30 Winchester, because that was what he was used to!
 
A 30-30 will kill for sure ,, but at what range ,, and with what authority... I have shot moose in Northern Ontario at 250 yards .. a 30-30 I would not even think about it ,, and there is cuts up there that so big it would not matter what gun you have .. so a 30-30 is so out ranged;; you may get a close shot ,, but you have a long shot ,,, I lent a guy a 338 and he shot a moose,, i went too help him with it ,, He had shot threw a 3 to 4 inch popular tree and still killed the moose.. a 30-30 i doubt the result would have been the same .. every thing a 30-30 will do a bigger gun will do ,, So why would you limit your self ,, there is only one degree of dead ,, I would rather have massive meat damage ,, than too let the moose get into the rough stuff for sure.. I want him too fall as close as possible ,, I hit a moose in the front shoulder with a 338 and took him off his feet .. Something like 4000 lbs of energy .. I also went too help a guy that had shot a moose Calf with a 44-40,, He shot it in the neck and it fell right there ,, did not even step according too him ,, the bullet was two too three inches deep in the neck.. Lucky he even got it .. that 44-40 did not even have enough power too shot through the neck of a calf .. let alone a full size moose ... Had he shot it some where else I am SURE we would have been looking for it ,, 30-30 has killed a pile of moose for sure .. But i am sure the 30-30 has fed a pile of wolves and bear too .. At least if you do use a big gun you can not say i wish I had brought the 30-06 instead of the 30-30
 
mike Crawford said:
A 30-30 will kill for sure ,, but at what range ,, and with what authority... I have shot moose in Northern Ontario at 250 yards .. a 30-30 I would not even think about it ,, and there is cuts up there that so big it would not matter what gun you have .. so a 30-30 is so out ranged;; you may get a close shot ,, but you have a long shot ,,, I lent a guy a 338 and he shot a moose,, i went too help him with it ,, He had shot threw a 3 to 4 inch popular tree and still killed the moose.. a 30-30 i doubt the result would have been the same .. every thing a 30-30 will do a bigger gun will do ,, So why would you limit your self ,, there is only one degree of dead ,, I would rather have massive meat damage ,, than too let the moose get into the rough stuff for sure.. I want him too fall as close as possible ,, I hit a moose in the front shoulder with a 338 and took him off his feet .. Something like 4000 lbs of energy .. I also went too help a guy that had shot a moose Calf with a 44-40,, He shot it in the neck and it fell right there ,, did not even step according too him ,, the bullet was two too three inches deep in the neck.. Lucky he even got it .. that 44-40 did not even have enough power too shot through the neck of a calf .. let alone a full size moose ... Had he shot it some where else I am SURE we would have been looking for it ,, 30-30 has killed a pile of moose for sure .. But i am sure the 30-30 has fed a pile of wolves and bear too .. At least if you do use a big gun you can not say i wish I had brought the 30-06 instead of the 30-30
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Mike, where in my post did I say anything good, or anything bad, for that matter, about a 30-30. I simply told what one hunter that I knew of did.
So why are you telling me how bad a 30-30 is?
 
Slooshark1 said:
I don't think the 30-30 is a suitable whitetail cartridge, let alone for Grizz. Hoyt's right. What happened back then isn't best practice today. If I had to defend myself against a grizz with a 30-30 or nothing, that would be the only time I would.
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WTF?


more deer and game in general have been harvested with a 30-30 than any other caliber

explain your statement
 
Ever calber has a effective limit same with hunters
At 300 yard I becom un-effective and marginal regardless of caliber I'm am safe at 200 yard and grate under 100 yard so I do everything I can to keep my shots under 100 yards
 
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H4831 said:
Mike, where in my post did I say anything good, or anything bad, for that matter, about a 30-30. I simply told what one hunter that I knew of did.
So why are you telling me how bad a 30-30 is?
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The 30-30 will kill moose .. What i do not like about a 30-30 for moose is this .. WHY would you limit your self too the range that a 30-30 will kill a moose .. if all your moose hunting is done at a reasonable 30-30 range then that is fine ,, But how many people would turn down a shot at a moose that was over 200 yards even if all they had was a 30-30 // Most hunters would try the shot .. the hunter standing beside him has a 7 mm Remington mag .. Who has the best chance of killing that moose cleanly // So I am not saying that a 30-30 is bad ,, It is bad for moose hunting in the north where the cuts are as far as you can see ,, I have seen moose cross a thousand yards away.. If I have a 30 -30 I need too get a lot closer too harvest that moose then if I carry a 300 win mag... Like I said before I would rather lend a guy a moose gun instead of him using a deer rifle that will kill a moose at a closer range .. In today's times most people do not HAVE too use a 30-30 for moose so why would you when there is so many better choices with more legs and more energy ,, I will stick my neck out and say MOST guns will kill a moose at a 100 yards // when you start looking at that list of 300 yard moose guns the list gets a lot shorter and I do not think the 30-30 would make that list
 
mike Crawford said:
The 30-30 will kill moose .. What i do not like about a 30-30 for moose is this .. WHY would you limit your self too the range that a 30-30 will kill a moose .. if all your moose hunting is done at a reasonable 30-30 range then that is fine ,, But how many people would turn down a shot at a moose that was over 200 yards even if all they had was a 30-30 // Most hunters would try the shot .. the hunter standing beside him has a 7 mm Remington mag .. Who has the best chance of killing that moose cleanly // So I am not saying that a 30-30 is bad ,, It is bad for moose hunting in the north where the cuts are as far as you can see ,, I have seen moose cross a thousand yards away.. If I have a 30 -30 I need too get a lot closer too harvest that moose then if I carry a 300 win mag... Like I said before I would rather lend a guy a moose gun instead of him using a deer rifle that will kill a moose at a closer range .. In today's times most people do not HAVE too use a 30-30 for moose so why would you when there is so many better choices with more legs and more energy ,, I will stick my neck out and say MOST guns will kill a moose at a 100 yards // when you start looking at that list of 300 yard moose guns the list gets a lot shorter and I do not think the 30-30 would make that list
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I would pass on the shot and get closer and I have past on shots a lot closer than 200 yards wen Thing are not pirfict
 
carverk said:
I would pass on the shot and get closer and I have past on shots a lot closer than 200 yards wen Thing are not pirfict
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So this is my point .. Why would anyone use a 30-30 fro moose period ,, they are a short range moose gun .. they will kill a moose for sure .. But so will alot of better choices ,, There is a few people that would pass up a longer shot if all they had was a 30-30 .. but most people would not .. so why put yourself in that spot in the first place .. was up by 100 mile house in B/C. a guy shot a moose at 500 yards with a 308 ,, he luckily broke it;s back or I BELIEVE THE MOOSE WOULD HAVE GOT AWAY .. a 308 will kill a moose for sure// not a 500 yard gun though .. I doubt a 300 weatherby would be enough .. I believe you should carry every bit of gun you can shot with flinching
 
New time Grizzly guns.

.300 Win, shooting 200gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws (too stiff, and at a 2200fps impact speed a bit too slow for my liking). Getting picky certainly resulted in a pair of dead Grizzlies. Client with his rifle top, Hoyt working on the North Coast, one of the recovered 200gr TBBCs.








.300 Ultra, 180gr Accubond- dynamite, Dogleg's bear.



.375 H&H, Dogleg's other gun, sitting on a log waiting for Grizzlies.




.375 Ruger (Alaskan model), shooting the 300gr DGX. It worked, bear rolled several times and that's that.




.375 H&H, backup on a few grizzly hunts.




Mossberg 590A1, when you absolutely, positively, want to wreck a gun.




Talkeetna .375 H&H, now PGW Ross', just didn't feel perfect for me and continued with the below project.



Titanium & stainless M98, by Stuart Satterlee in .375 RNE. The new ultralight right hand grizzly guiding.

 
mike Crawford said:
The 30-30 will kill moose .. What i do not like about a 30-30 for moose is this .. WHY would you limit your self too the range that a 30-30 will kill a moose .. if all your moose hunting is done at a reasonable 30-30 range then that is fine ,, But how many people would turn down a shot at a moose that was over 200 yards even if all they had was a 30-30 // Most hunters would try the shot .. the hunter standing beside him has a 7 mm Remington mag .. Who has the best chance of killing that moose cleanly // So I am not saying that a 30-30 is bad ,, It is bad for moose hunting in the north where the cuts are as far as you can see ,, I have seen moose cross a thousand yards away.. If I have a 30 -30 I need too get a lot closer too harvest that moose then if I carry a 300 win mag... Like I said before I would rather lend a guy a moose gun instead of him using a deer rifle that will kill a moose at a closer range .. In today's times most people do not HAVE too use a 30-30 for moose so why would you when there is so many better choices with more legs and more energy ,, I will stick my neck out and say MOST guns will kill a moose at a 100 yards // when you start looking at that list of 300 yard moose guns the list gets a lot shorter and I do not think the 30-30 would make that list
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Using that logic, when does it end?
Because I don't want to have to carry a 50 bmg on my next hunt. Weighs more than the 38-55 I took along last time.
 
carverk said:
Haahaa right on I was thinking it but didn't want to post it
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You are the exception then ,, I know lots of guys that will not pass a 50 yard bow shot and will tell you they are comfortable at 60 .. Or maybe i know alot of morons .. I do not bow hunt just for that reason .. you need too get close .. I much prefer a long range rifle
 
Beautiful pics angus..... I never tire of seeing them....... also quite gracious of you to post a courtesy pic of Hoyt's Mossberg amongst those other fine firearms....... :)

"Mossberg, for when you really want to wreck a gun" ..... I am of the opinion that they come pre-wrecked from the factory.... :)
 
mike Crawford said:
You are the exception then ,, I know lots of guys that will not pass a 50 yard bow shot and will tell you they are comfortable at 60 .. Or maybe i know alot of morons .. I do not bow hunt just for that reason .. you need too get close .. I much prefer a long range rifle
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Isn't the point of hunting to get as close as possible and make a clean kill?
 
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