Outfitters upset with some out-of-province hunters

[blargon]

Now they are allowed to hunt from the roads?

Don't know, but I know we're not allowed to drive them.

Here's one of many articles ongoing:

Share the land: group struck to fight for Crown land access; Contends property turned into private preserves for tourist outfitters — MNR denies charge

"the Ontario government, through the Ministry of Natural Resources, is setting up barriers to keep Ontario taxpayers out of prime hunting and fishing locations so that tourist outfitters can use the land exclusively for the enjoyment of their high-paying guests."

http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=866344&auth=Tom Keenan

 

[gth]

This is happening not to far from here right now and I didnt even know. Obabika lake. I asked around and got soem pretty funny stories of what the locals have been doing about the outfitter and his exclusive rights.

This place wont be in business much longer as some of the locals up there are loco. So far they have not been charged and I doubt theres a CO in the province with the cojones to charge anyone.

Some of the stories are fargin hilarious. People drive up, pull out the bolt cutters, cut the lock off the gate and then drive right in. Outfitter replaces lock, next guy dopwn the road stops and cuts the new lock off just for something to do. I would expect if the outfitter/mnr puts up much more of a stink he will find nothing but ashes some spring.

 

[gth]

Sounds like a road trip is in order during hunting season... would they actually stop you if you proceeded past them. What the hell would they charge you with? Hunting on crown land?

If your not prepared to go toe to toe with the outfitter or get your vehicle messed with, I wouldnt bother. The outfitter may be in the wrong but from what I have encountered they are going to fight to protect thier livelyhood.

 

[senior]

Sounds like a road trip is in order during hunting season... would they actually stop you if you proceeded past them. What the hell would they charge you with? Hunting on crown land?

I'd love for my lawyer to fight that one in court

Ya right, like your gonna pay a lawyer large $$ & take how much time off work to travel in some cases 3-500miles to have your day in court!

Maybe would seem a reasonable way to go if your some of the locals.

 

[powdergun]

If people don't stand up to this commercialization of hunting then the only ones that will be allowed to hunt are those with the cash to pay. Crown land should be left as crown land with free access to everyone.

In a blink of an eye it will sold to developers and environmentally tree hugging yuppies will be living next to the meadows we once hunted in. Just look at BC.

Outfitters will tie up all the prime areas and mine it for every decent animal available. All they think about is the cash. So if someone wants to fight it with their lawyer then we should support their efforts. Go get em !!!

 

[Northman999]

Many hunters aren't fans of outfitters up north either. I'm sure they aren't all bad, but stories of outfitters showing up at other poeple's camps and trying to run them out of areas they are allowed to hunt, aren't unheard of. Definitely a sense of ownership with some outfitters up here too, despite the fact that it is completely unfounded.

 

[Dogleg]

Ya right, like your gonna pay a lawyer large $$ & take how much time off work to travel in some cases 3-500miles to have your day in court!

Maybe would seem a reasonable way to go if your some of the locals.

Abuses like this continue to happen because doing something about it is a pain in the ass. Nothing changes until someone stands up to them on principal.
I tried to get arrested a couple years ago when a outfitter acquired a crown hay lease, posted it then put baited deer stands up for his American clients. First off a hay lease isn't a hunting lease. 2nd Hunting leases are illegal. 3rd, it was the wrong zone for Americans. 4th it is illegal to outfit on posted land. Even if the clients were Canadian he can't outfit on posted land in Sask.
Even though I told the COs that I was going,and had already gone and I met the outfitter in the area nothing happened except the dirty look he sent my way. It was kind of cool, what with him saving such a nice area for my use. Do you think that ####### really wants to go to court and have that story told? How about getting his clients arrested too? As for vandalism to my equipment I wouldn't worry about that too much. That's a game that can't be won.

 

[gth]

As for vandalism to my equipment I wouldn't worry about that too much. That's a game that can't be won.

After this years run in I bet I could park my truck in the outfitters laneway and he wouldnt have the balls to even look at it..........

 

[JB]

In Ontario, most areas that outfitters use is off limits to anyone else, even the locals. CO's watch the roads keenly around these areas.

show me in the regs where it says a cant hunt on crown land because some outfiter has that area to run his bus on

 

[Dogleg]

After this years run in I bet I could park my truck in the outfitters laneway and he wouldnt have the balls to even look at it..........

It might even be in his best interests to post a guard over it, least something bad happen to it. Bush justice doesn't require the same level of proof as the legal system.

 

[JIMJ]

I've gotten in the bush sometimes at least an hour before the outfitter. If I really wanted to I could use his area as it is crown Land. For instance I have been going to this spot for years the deer come from the south then travel through bush funneling to my spot. The loggers clear cut that bush to the south. Now the outfitter uses it. I heard many shots come from the area and I've seen a reduction in the amount of deer coming by my stand. But legally I cannot do anything about it just as he cannot if I decided to use the clear cut. Whether he has 2 stands in there or not ( as long as I do not use his stands). which .But I give the respect to the outfitter as I would hope he gives others in the bush.And of course you have the guys that drive around hunting which show up at daylight.They do not care if they see you on the trail they drive right up to you and pass.( Note trail was never passable before until logger created clear cut)

 

[blargon]

show me in the regs where it says a cant hunt on crown land because some outfiter has that area to run his bus on

I never said it was in the regs, but that isn't stopping the MNR CO's from enforcing it.

Did you read the above article?

http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=866344&auth=Tom Keenan

"the Ontario government, through the Ministry of Natural Resources, is setting up barriers to keep Ontario taxpayers out of prime hunting and fishing locations so that tourist outfitters can use the land exclusively for the enjoyment of their high-paying guests."

There also is nothing in the regs saying that CO's can shoot dozens of "nuisance" bears and dump them on secluded roads, but it happens. But hey, we don't need a spring bear hunt.

Now, I know everyone says "If it ain't in the regs, piss on them", well who's prepared to drive 20hrs north to hunt on 1 weeks vacation to spend an unknown amount of time dealing with the CO's who may or may not give you a substantial $$$$ fine for not obeying " their laws "?

Not to mention the return trip to Thunder Bay Court to fight the charge (more $$$) and more vacation time wasted, and have a judge that says " Can't you read the signs" GUILTY and you still have to pay the fine.

You try, and let me know how that works out for you.

 

[riden]

I've gotten in the bush sometimes at least an hour before the outfitter. If I really wanted to I could use his area as it is crown Land. For instance I have been going to this spot for years the deer come from the south then travel through bush funneling to my spot. The loggers clear cut that bush to the south. Now the outfitter uses it. I heard many shots come from the area and I've seen a reduction in the amount of deer coming by my stand. But legally I cannot do anything about it just as he cannot if I decided to use the clear cut. Whether he has 2 stands in there or not ( as long as I do not use his stands). which .But I give the respect to the outfitter as I would hope he gives others in the bush.And of course you have the guys that drive around hunting which show up at daylight.They do not care if they see you on the trail they drive right up to you and pass.( Note trail was never passable before until logger created clear cut)

Now I am curious.

Are you saying you can legally leave a stand on crown land and keep exclusive rights to it?

 

[senior]

Abuses like this continue to happen because doing something about it is a pain in the ass. Nothing changes until someone stands up to them on principal.
I tried to get arrested a couple years ago when a outfitter acquired a crown hay lease, posted it then put baited deer stands up for his American clients. First off a hay lease isn't a hunting lease. 2nd Hunting leases are illegal. 3rd, it was the wrong zone for Americans. 4th it is illegal to outfit on posted land. Even if the clients were Canadian he can't outfit on posted land in Sask.
Even though I told the COs that I was going,and had already gone and I met the outfitter in the area nothing happened except the dirty look he sent my way. It was kind of cool, what with him saving such a nice area for my use. Do you think that a**hole really wants to go to court and have that story told? How about getting his clients arrested too? As for vandalism to my equipment I wouldn't worry about that too much. That's a game that can't be won.

Kind of a hugely diff situation a outfitter put up signs & the MNR put them up don't you think??

 

[nomames]

In areas I've hunted outfitters have put up hundreds of stands and have so much bait out that a local Sask. boy has little chance in some of these areas. Crown land belongs to everyone and if you don't like other hunters around your so called territory to freakin bad. If it was private land thats one thing but just because you've talked some big spenders up from the states doesn't mean you own the game.

I hope the whole outfitting trade goes down the crapper. Canadian game is for Canadians. If the US want to destroy their hunting lands and turn it all into high priced hunt farms then they can have at it but don't look to Canada as your next place to take over.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[TPK]

EXACTLY!!!

Come on folks, you're sounding like the antis ... only instead of painting all gun owners as bad because of the gang bangers, you're painting all Guide Outfitters with the same brush because there are a few that are a problem. If the Guide Outfitters go down the crapper how far behind do you think resident hunters will be? Like it or not, there is a place for them and they have a right to make money with their business.

 

[Dogleg]

Kind of a hugely diff situation a outfitter put up signs & the MNR put them up don't you think??

Perhaps, but the point still is that if nobody stands up to them, nothing changes. The MNR either have that authority or they don't. If they don't, then they should be called on it. If they do, well laws are changed every day.

 

[blargon]

Perhaps, but the point still is that if nobody stands up to them, nothing changes. The MNR either have that authority or they don't. If they don't, then they should be called on it. If they do, well laws are changed every day.

Couldn't agree more, but where do we draw the line? $1000, $5000 or ??? Personally I have kids to feed and clothe and can't afford to give up a month's salary in fines and court costs to prove them in the wrong.

 

[Why not?]

& how do you do that when your out of cell phone range & 100 miles from the nearest little town??

besides I hate autimated answering services!

You go and speak personally with you MLA now, before you head out and ask what is going on. Seriously, I can't believe you guys would stand for this!

Ted

 

[JIMJ]

Now I am curious.

Are you saying you can legally leave a stand on crown land and keep exclusive rights to it?

riden You can in Manitoba but it has to be removed at end of Hunting season . Your name has to be on it and address so if you do not remove it they NRO can find you. Though I have seen them never taken down for years now and no name indicating whose it is. I do have a couple out which I indicate my phone number so any Curtious hunters can phone me and ask if it is alright to use it and as long as I am not going out I have no problem. Though they would have a time finding it ( but just in case).