Picking a Blackpowder Cartridge Rifle

Dogleg

Dogleg

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Where dem buffalo roam.
I've been suffering from an on-again off-again hankering for an old time buffalo gun (replica) for plate bashing and perhaps informal silhouette. My knowledge is this field is limited to shooting a Shiloh and C-sharps a tiny bit and reading a bit. Bullet casting isn't a problem, nor is a place to toss bullets way out there. An 8 foot buffalo silhouette might even be lurking in the background.

Beyond obvious choices like the Shiloh or C-Sharps that come with waiting lists and enthusiastic price-tags, what else is out there that is worth trying? I see that Pedersoli get mentioned quite often. While acknowledging that you generally get what you pay for, I've also noticed above the entry level pedersolis they aren't exactly giving them away either. How do they stack up as shooters? What else is out there?

In a general sort of way I wouldn't mind a Sharps of some description, but am not married to the idea. A rolling block could also work. I'd like vernier sights, something way above junk but far short of art gallery types.

Any ideas and direction would be appreciated.
 
I have a plain Pedersoli Rolling Block in 45/70. I replaced the mid range soule sights it came with, with the Creedmore long range set. I'm now just waiting on the Long range Malcom scope for it, as this years upgrade (damn cataracts). It is an excellent shooter, with my hand-loaded Holy Black cartridges. Compared to the falling block action(Sharpes) in the same caliber, it is at least a couple pounds lighter. The disadvantage is that the cartridges must be the correct length or the action will not close. The falling block action will actually push a slightly over length cartridge into the chamber anyway.

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Probably the most cost effective route towards a reliable BPCR is the pedersoli John Bodine rolling block. Top it with Lee Shaver sights and you should be good to go.

And I say this owning a Shiloh Sharps, topped with MVA sights. Its more elegant, but doesn't work any better.

I strongly recommend choosing your rifle based on comfort......not on looks. Curved butt plates, long cartridges, straight stocks all look impressive........but get old very fast. Shotgun butt, pistol grip, efficient shorter cartridges (theres guys who compete with the 40-50SS, so you dont need a monster shell) result in a gun you can shoot all day.
 
I have a Taylors and Co Sharps Rifle with double set triggers, a 32" barrel and a long range tang sight in .45-70. I've been very impressed with it, been shooting full loads of fffg and a Lee spire point 500 grain bullet. It's more accurate than me and it's heavy enough that recoil is very manageable, and yet very well balanced. The breech block removes very quickly and easily for cleaning, and is smooth and slick. I got it for a steal on the EE. I'd also suggest looking at Ellwood Epps, they have several .577 snider Enfields in stock, a trapdoor .50-70 and a rolling block .50-70.
 
Dogleg the waiting list for a C. Sharps isn't all that long, certainly less than for a Shiloh. With that said, you can sometimes find guns in inventory at Shiloh so you only have to wait for importing.

The Browning BPCR rifles are quite accurate, mine is very close to my Shiloh in .45-70, but not close to my Shiloh in .40-65 :)

The advice on choosing the configuration ( chambering, stock design, barrel weight, etc ) is very good advice. You won't go wrong with a pistol gripped, shotgun butt, .45-70 with a 30" heavy barrel. When I got into shooting these rifles I went down the garden path a few times and ended up with less than useful rifles.

With respect to quality, you'll find some manufacturers are hit and miss, while others are dependably accurate. i used to say look at match results to see who's rifles are winning, but that can be misleading. For instance I was at a match down south recently where several Browning BPCR rifles placed very high, but looking closer, they all had Green Mountain barrels with custom chambers. So things are not always what they seem.

I have modern reproduction rifles from Shiloh, C. Sharps, CPA, and a Browning BPCR. The Shiloh's are my most dependably accurate rifles day in and day out.

If I were starting fresh knowing what I know now, I would start with a Shiloh Long Range Express with a 30" or 32" long heavy barrel, standard wood to keep costs down, and checkering. Sights would be an MVA Buffalo Soule LR, and a Distant Thunder or Lee Shaver front sight.

That's my $0.02. :)

Chris.
 
I shoot BPCR and have had a couple of Pedersolis, both the R-B and 1874 Sharps Long Range. The R-B stock wasn't comfortable and had a chamber issue (an old version) so I dumped it several years ago. The Long Range was a beautiful gun and was very accurate with several weights of cast bullets but was a 45-90 and just too much recoil. Also, the Mid Range sight obstructed the cleaning rod when I cleaned the bore from the breech so was an awkward operation.
Then I bought a Winchester/Miroku HiWall 1885 in 38-55: the Traditional Hunter with 28" heavy barrel. It shoots cast bullets very well with the after-market MVA sights, is okay for smokeless and is drilled and tapped for scope mounts which are handy for developing accurate loads. My only knock would be that it is less easy to clean a HiWall thoroughly because it is easier to drop the breech block assembly out of a Sharps. The 38-55 is a pussy cat for recoil and very accurate so I have retired this 1885 in favour of a 30" custom-barreled 38-55 on an original Winder HiWall receiver with custom stocks. Concurrently, I also have a Shilo - Farmingdale Sharps in 45-70 with Lee shaver sights that shoots the lights out but I still don't like the recoil from the 45-70: if it was 38-55 caliber I would keep it forever.... maybe I will find one someday. Meanwhile, the Farmingdale Sharps 45-70 and the Win/Miroku Hiwall 38-55 are for sale.
 
I have a rolling block in 38-56; it is not spectacularly accurate but that is me and my loading and lack of practice. I like the cartridge because it takes significantly more powder that the 38-55 and even with a faster twist barrel than normal and a 300 gr slug, it is comfortable to shoot. I want to go to a 40 cal bottleneck case based on the 45-70 shell just because it is different. I started out with a 45-120 Farmingdale Sharps but while it was accurate, it only shot paper patched bullets (very shallow rifling) and kicked like a mule

cheers mooncoon
 
I have a Armi San Marco repro Sharps, 45/70, 28" octagon barrel with there vernier site. It gets so=so reviews, but mine shoots really well. Out to 200yds it does fine, haven't shot it any farther. Haven't used BP in it yet, will do this summer. Had to do some fine tuning on the set triggers, seems to like bullets from the 300 to 350gr weights.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
.....Concurrently, I also have a Shilo - Farmingdale Sharps in 45-70 with Lee shaver sights that shoots the lights out but I still don't like the recoil from the 45-70: if it was 38-55 caliber I would keep it forever....
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I got to try some .45-70 in the big heavy Sharps rifles a couple of times. I thought perhaps that the amount and sharpness of the recoil was due to them using smokeless powder. But it would seem that if you're getting a lot of recoil even from black powder loads in .45-70 that I made the right decision to go .38-55.
 
As we get older we become recoil shy after shooting a two or three day match you do not want to touch the rifle for a few days, now maybe with a heavy barrel 38/55 you might be able to shoot more.
 
I hear you on the recoil, I've found that using lighter bullets made the difference in sore shoulder or not. My MH's with the 480gr. bullet and 85gr FFG load are tough on the recoil. When shooting a lot of rounds you feel them. I have a friend with a 40-65, that's a sweet shooter and not much on the recoil.
 
I wouldn't say that I'm recoil shy as in terms of flinching or anything. But the smokeless .45-70's even from the big heavy Sharps pounded my shoulder to where after a half dozen shots my arm literally felt a bit shocky. So there's pretty clearly a price to be paid for sending such a big hunk o'lead downrange. And more than a couple of enthusiastic Sharps owners have admitted that their arms were pretty jumpy after a string of 10 shots or so.

I keep reading about .40-60 or .40-65. I can't help but think this might be a nice round. A bit more power than a .38-55 for taking down the big rams at longer distances. But not so much kick as the .45-70 and bigger options.
 
BCRider said:
I wouldn't say that I'm recoil shy as in terms of flinching or anything. But the smokeless .45-70's even from the big heavy Sharps pounded my shoulder to where after a half dozen shots my arm literally felt a bit shocky. So there's pretty clearly a price to be paid for sending such a big hunk o'lead downrange. And more than a couple of enthusiastic Sharps owners have admitted that their arms were pretty jumpy after a string of 10 shots or so.

I keep reading about .40-60 or .40-65. I can't help but think this might be a nice round. A bit more power than a .38-55 for taking down the big rams at longer distances. But not so much kick as the .45-70 and bigger options.
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I find smokeless powder to give more of a sharp recoil impulse. Black powder is more like a push than a hit.
 
I shoot black powder muzzle loaders and revolvers as well so I totally agree with you. But I must admit that I have not had the pleasure of shooting black powder .45-70 cartridge rifles. But (again) I do agree that it would be far more tolerable to my apparently shaky disposition to shoulder a gun shooting proper black stuff.

My reluctance to do this is that much of my setting up and load testing is aimed at using my long distance single shot guns for SASS side match long range shooting. And the string of 10 to 12 shots needed really doesn't lend itself to shooting black powder for serious accuracy given that I don't have the time to swab the bore between shots or indeed at all during that string of shots.

This obviously doesn't prevent me from doing some BP rounds for giggles. And I'm keen on that. But I'm still waiting on that darn shipment of "round tuits" to arrive. I think they are on back order.

I'm sure you're right though and I'd find BP rounds to be just fine. But the folks that let me try their Sharps rifles were all in the same boat as me. SASS side match shooters primarily with their guns. So they all used smokeless for the same reason I wrote above.

On the other hand if I knew I could spit out a fouling shot or two and that the rifles would remain consistent for the scored string of shots I could easily be talked into using proper BP loads. In fact I'd really enjoy smoking the whole shooting line.... :)
 
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