Picture of the day

[purple]

As I said anybody in the know knew who he was and maybe the lowly front line soldier was kept in the dark. The Allies worked to psychologically hide and control the "Tiger Terror" and maybe avoided talking about Panzer Aces, particularly Mike.

Well "Mike" was SS, and they got talked about quite a lot. It would be very unusual for troops in one Army to get wind of a comparatively low ranking officer among the enemy. Everybody knew about Rommel, but that was a different story.

There's a generational difference showing here. When I was a kid and a young soldier, most of the men were vets and most of our officers and NCOs were also WW2 vets. I learned a lot from them. One thing I never would have done is to sing the praises of anybody in the SS, at the risk of a slap in the mouth or a fist in the eye. History is history, but the SS were a miserable bunch who killed a lot of our people along the way.

 

[Sqr]

Fair enough but history is history. Even Russian who has taken the most punishment from the Panzer Tiger 1 to this day collect, build and display this technical marvel.

 

[Gibbs505]

Decommissioned American nuclear submarines awaiting and under disposal.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

That's pretty much the ultimate expression of consumer culture.

Spend untold feckin' billions to design, build, man, maintain, and use those boats for twenty years or so, then cut 'em up because they're not worth keeping anymore. "So goes all flesh", I know, but damn, man.

 

[purple]

Had a "private tour" of the USS Daniel Boone, SSBN629, in Tampa, FL in 1984/85. The Navy wanted to show its stuff to some of us Army/Air Force/Marine swine at HQ USREDCOM. It was pretty impressive to tour the compartment where all the nukes were stacked up in their shiny silos. That submarine was in service for 31 years. I decided that I didn't envy those guys their jobs one bit.

 

[diopter]

Metal fatigue. Number of dives, increase and decrease in pressure weakens the metal and eventually sub goes down with all hands lost.

Same idea as high number takeoff and landing jet aircraft frames at high altitude. Prop planes don't go as high so their airframes last longer.

The hull compartment with the reactor on a nuclear powered sub, becomes highly radioactive after fuel rods have been changed a few times.
No one needs glow in the dark sailors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_depth_ratings

It would be interesting if this information on the Skorpion proves to be true.
http://deafwhale.com/uss-scorpion/

 

[BillD]

As I said anybody in the know knew who he was and maybe the lowly front line soldier was kept in the dark. The Allies worked to psychologically hide and control the "Tiger Terror" and maybe avoided talking about Panzer Aces, particularly Mike.

Just finished reading Otto Carius' book "Tigers in the Mud" that was mentioned earlier; fascinating read honestly.

 

[Gibbs505]

 

[Cold Warrior]

Used USN subs for sale cheap! (plus More Wittmann!)

That's pretty much the ultimate expression of consumer culture.

Spend untold feckin' billions to design, build, man, maintain, and use those boats for twenty years or so, then cut 'em up because they're not worth keeping anymore. "So goes all flesh", I know, but damn, man.

Yeah, they could've selected a few of the best of the used ones, given them a coat of fresh paint, and sold them to Canada.

More Wittmann: I was motorbike camping through Montana in 1983 when I met two Canadian tanker vets who claimed to have been at the Wittmann engagement. I don't recall whether they said they had witnessed/were involved, or whether they happened by shortly afterwards, but I do remember them saying how the German caught that unit lined up on an open road where they couldn't maneuver. Their best defense would've been to bail out and run for it. Oh, BTW--They'd not heard of Wittmann until some time later. Neither one knew how he died.

Here's Wiki's report:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wittmann#Speculation_surrounding_death

 

[RRCo.]

Well "Mike" was SS, and they got talked about quite a lot. It would be very unusual for troops in one Army to get wind of a comparatively low ranking officer among the enemy. Everybody knew about Rommel, but that was a different story.

There's a generational difference showing here. When I was a kid and a young soldier, most of the men were vets and most of our officers and NCOs were also WW2 vets. I learned a lot from them. One thing I never would have done is to sing the praises of anybody in the SS, at the risk of a slap in the mouth or a fist in the eye. History is history, but the SS were a miserable bunch who killed a lot of our people along the way.

Aw man, but they look so kool in those black uniforms n' everything!

To be serious though, I salute both your good sense and your restraint.

 

[Gibbs505]

Aw man, but they look so kool in those black uniforms n' everything!

To be serious though, I salute both your good sense and your restraint.

Panzer troops also wore black uniforms and were sometimes confused with the SS.

Oberstleutnant of Panzer Troops Erich Loewe, one of the 882 recipients of the Knights's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves.

German Uniforms of World War II - Oberfeldwebel, Panzer troops, 1941

 

[Claven2]

Metal fatigue. Number of dives, increase and decrease in pressure weakens the metal and eventually sub goes down with all hands lost.

Same idea as high number takeoff and landing jet aircraft frames at high altitude. Prop planes don't go as high so their airframes last longer.

The hull compartment with the reactor on a nuclear powered sub, becomes highly radioactive after fuel rods have been changed a few times.
No one needs glow in the dark sailors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_depth_ratings

It would be interesting if this information on the Skorpion proves to be true.
http://deafwhale.com/uss-scorpion/

This is something I know a bit about. Submarines are built of high tensile steel these days. American boats used to be built of HY80 alloy, but they recently switched to HY100. This stuff does not de-laminate after many dive cycles like on older boats. The number of cycles needed to cause an issue would not be reached in 100 years of service.

The things that ultimately make a US boat eligible for decommissioning:

1) Obsolescence. Boats trade on their stealth and currency of combat systems. Congress limits how many SSN and SSBNs the navy can have and they have a continuous build program to maintain capability as constructors. As new boats are built, they are more capable and quieter. It makes no sense to upgrade old boats when you are over the limit you can afford to operate and new boats are arriving.
2) Corrosion. It's a constant battle at refit to keep an old boat serviceable. after a while the battle isn;t worth fighting any longer.
3) Refuelling. It's more expensive to refuel an SSN than it is to build a new reactor.

 

[Sqr]

Panzer troops also wore black uniforms and were sometimes confused with the SS.

Oberstleutnant of Panzer Troops Erich Loewe, one of the 882 recipients of the Knights's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves.

German Uniforms of World War II - Oberfeldwebel, Panzer troops, 1941

The panzer troops had the black uniforms and death head insignia first before any other branch of German forces.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Pick one.

 

[peterrunsguns]

yup\

 

[RRCo.]

Panzer troops also wore black uniforms and were sometimes confused with the SS.

Oberstleutnant of Panzer Troops Erich Loewe, one of the 882 recipients of the Knights's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves.

German Uniforms of World War II - Oberfeldwebel, Panzer troops, 1941

Notice the Totenkopf?

Little boys naturally have trouble understanding the moral and historical context of the military hardware they find so fascinating. As we get older we hopefully learn more about those things and gain some perspective. Some of course remain little boys all their lives, devoid of moral and historical perspective or simply too immature to ever gain any. After experiencing a few massacres of our PoWs by the SS, many Canadian troops got in the habit of taking no SS prisoners. After murdering their way across Europe and back again over five years, the millions the SS killed, civilians, PoWs, women and children are unnumbered and unknown. Don't bother telling me how nice some of them were, that they were just good anti-communists, they exemplified the worst of that that arrogant and brutal mentality that was out to enslave the world and cost us the lives of equally uncounted millions of our best citizens. I'm just sorry some of our wannabe f------s couldn't meet a few of our now-departed vets and get some truth knocked into them.

Now enjoy your pictures.

 

[RRCo.]

Panzer troops also wore black uniforms and were sometimes confused with the SS.

Oberstleutnant of Panzer Troops Erich Loewe, one of the 882 recipients of the Knights's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves.

German Uniforms of World War II - Oberfeldwebel, Panzer troops, 1941

Notice the Totenkopf?

Little boys naturally have trouble understanding the moral and historical context of the military hardware they find so fascinating. As we get older we hopefully learn more about those things and gain some perspective. Some of course remain little boys all their lives, devoid of moral and historical perspective or simply too immature to ever gain any. After experiencing a few massacres of our PoWs by the SS, many Canadian troops got in the habit of taking no SS prisoners. After murdering their way across Europe and back again over five years, the millions the SS killed, civilians, PoWs, women and children are unnumbered and unknown. Don't bother telling me how nice some of them were, that they were just good anti-communists, they exemplified the worst of that that arrogant and brutal mentality that was out to enslave the world and cost us the lives of equally uncounted millions of our best citizens. I'm just sorry some of our wannabe f------s couldn't meet a few of our now-departed vets and get some truth knocked into them.

Now enjoy your pictures, fantasies, whatever.

 

[Sharps '63]

The Totenkoph logo isn't the problem, it's the history of the Waffen SS and the effectiveness of the Panzer Truppen that taints it.

The British 17/21 lancers wear the Totenkoph as a trophy battle honour from the Napoleonic war. Same for the bearskin of the Brigade of Guards, a battle honour taken from victories over Napoleon's "Old Guard".

As a Victorian military re-enactor, I encountered a young American who was also involved in a WWII re-enactment unit - the Hitler Jugend 12th SS. He was perfect for the part as a blond, blue eyed type. He was reluctant to tell me as he knew the history of the 12th SS and the bitter fighting with Canadians.

Having served a four year stint with our NATO Brigade in Germany, I was amazed that a country as small as Germany could have such a militaristic history - Frederick The Great, the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, WWI, WWII and much earlier with the stalemate between rebellious Teutonic tribesmen and the Romans. They are a militaristic people by nature and I shudder to think how close they came to domination of Europe, Russia and other regions.

Over the years, I've noticed that the most worshipful keyboard warriors and collectors of military weaponry and memorabilia never wore a uniform. I don't have a problem with this as they are preserving military history with their interest, but they don't have the same appreciation as those who served, especially those of the "Greatest Generation".

 

[Old Albertan]

After murdering their way across Europe and back again over five years, the millions the SS killed, civilians, PoWs, women and children are unnumbered and unknown.

The SS did not have a monopoly on the genocide. It is now known that the regular German army was also an active participant in the massacres. The biggest con played on the western allies after the war was that the German army generals and leadership knew nothing and did not contribute to the horror that unfolded. Most people still believe that they were just "focused on the war", "not political" or were "just following orders." More education is required for those who are unaware of the true scope of this evil machine.

 

[Old Albertan]

Aw man, but they look so kool in those black uniforms n' everything!

Interesting to note that Hugo Boss was the designer and supplier of those black uniforms. Evil as they were, they were likely the most stylish looking troops in Europe.