Picture of the day

[grelmar]

Here's a conversation starter...

Back when we were a confident nation with aspirations of becoming a true world power. Adopted under a Conservative government, scrapped under a Liberal government - go figure.

 

[scott585]

i think the f-104 is distinct in that it doesnt really take off, it just travels in a straight line while the earth curves away from under it

 

[propliner]

Coming up to the 60th anniversary of the official roll-out.

No one event has ever diminished the potential for excellence in Canada more than the abandonment of the Arrow project. That is, aside from electing the Trudeaus.

 

[buzzmagoo]

In the first picture the Lithuanian soldiers helmet ? Is it something special because of the cut outs over the ears ? Just curios !

 

[donor]

You mean this?Here is more info: http://www.german-helmets.com/HEER M1918 EAR CUT-OUT Helmets.htm

http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgstal.htm

 

[diopter]

i think the f-104 is distinct in that it doesnt really take off, it just travels in a straight line while the earth curves away from under it

Please, don't pan the photographer.

 

[Snowballs]

Back when we were a confident nation with aspirations of becoming a true world power. Adopted under a Conservative government, scrapped under a Liberal government - go figure.

Yes those were proud times.

Then unification and heading down hill ever since the reign of Turdo the 1st

 

[Ganderite]

Back when we were a confident nation with aspirations of becoming a true world power. Adopted under a Conservative government, scrapped under a Liberal government - go figure.

I thought the project was scrapped by Diefenbaker?

 

[Sharps '74]

.... and we got the BOMARC as a reward.

 

[Brookwood]

Here's a conversation starter...

"Our decision to introduce the Bomarc did not work out well. To begin with, the Bomarc was very soon proven to be virtually obsolete even before it was set up."
One Canada: Memoirs of the Right Honourable John G. Diefenbaker Volume III, pp. 36- Macmillan-NAL Pub (1978)

 

[Rob]

It is important to remember not all Germans were Nazi's. This was especially the case in the Kreigsmarine.

I am well aware that not every German soldier was a card carrying member of the Nazi party. But trying to somehow excuse people who fought for the Nazis just because they weren't Nazi party members just doesn't wash with me. Sorry.

 

[Rob]

What do you mean they didn't survive into jet age?Sure they did.Beside american boats mentioned already Russia and China had,have and will have flying boats in service.

Indonesia,Philippines and Australia had flying boats in service into late 1970's,early 80s.Japanese love affair with flying boats is well known and continues with ShinMaywa US-2.So is Chinese with new Harbin SH-5

There is a new trend emerging as well-small,almost disposable,concealable boats meant for i guess special ops/insertion/surveillance purposes.Iran has Bavar-2,S.Korea and Indonesia is working on them as well.

Beautiful planes. I was not aware of them. Love those flying boats.

 

[sail32]

The is an effort underway to recover the Arrow prototypes from Lake Ontario,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/avro-arrow-recovery-lake-ontario-1.4207116

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/robot-mission-launched-to-retrieve-avro-arrow-models-from-lake-ont-1.3503298

 

[CV32]

Here's a conversation starter...

Limited in its original form by its dangerous to store/handle/load hypergolic liquid propellant, among other things. (Note as well that by the time this pic was taken, the Bomarc had been long gone from the Canadian arsenal and in this configuration shown was just a target drone.)

 

[shredder]

What a thing we traded the Arrow for, huh?

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Adopted under a Conservative government, scrapped under a Liberal government - go figure.

Sorry, mate - 100% opposite:

Encouraged by A.V. Roe's success in developing the Avro CF-100 Canuck and recognizing the need for an aircraft to counter the threat of Soviet bombers over the demanding Canadian North, enthusiastic RCAF officers, defence scientists and defence-industry officials had persuaded the Liberal government by December 1953 to authorize two prototype airframes in anticipation of a production run of up to 600 aircraft costing $2 million apiece.

In October 1958, to cut costs, the new Conservative government terminated Canadian fire-control and missile development, and renewed efforts to sell the aircraft to the US, just when the US was promoting Bomarc missiles and the USSR's launch of an ICBM missile was raising doubts about the priority of the Soviet bomber threat.
After export efforts again failed, the project was cancelled on 20 February 1959.

Once in a while the usual tropes of Conservative = pro-military spending / Liberals = anti-military spending are reversed. Weird old world.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Behold the first combat drone, the TDR-1, here as a prototype with pilot:

Guided using primitive TV tech and a camera in the nose. Used in the Pacific for part of a year with mixed success. Program abandoned in 1945. One remains at the Naval Aviation Museum:

 

[Sharps '74]

She'd make a sleek RC model.

 

[Claven2]

I thought the project was scrapped by Diefenbaker?

The arrow was, yes. The Bomarc was adopted by a conservative - along with our strategic nuclear arsenal. Then the Libs scrapped it and joined non-proliferation, before that was really a "thing".

 

[grelmar]

I thought the project was scrapped by Diefenbaker?

Sorry, mate - 100% opposite:






Once in a while the usual tropes of Conservative = pro-military spending / Liberals = anti-military spending are reversed. Weird old world.

Am I getting the timeline totally wrong, or are we talking about a different thing?

The Bomarc Missile Program was highly controversial in Canada.[13] The Progressive Conservative government of Prime Minister John Diefenbaker initially agreed to deploy the missiles, and shortly thereafter controversially scrapped the Avro Arrow, a supersonic manned interceptor aircraft, arguing that the missile program made the Arrow unnecessary.[13]

Initially, it was unclear whether the missiles would be equipped with nuclear warheads. By 1960 it became known that the missiles were to have a nuclear payload, and a debate ensued about whether Canada should accept nuclear weapons.[14] Ultimately, the Diefenbaker government decided that the Bomarcs should not be equipped with nuclear warheads.[15] The dispute split the Diefenbaker Cabinet, and led to the collapse of the government in 1963.[15] The Official Opposition and Liberal Party leader Lester B. Pearson originally was against nuclear missiles, but reversed his personal position and argued in favor of accepting nuclear warheads.[16] He won the 1963 election, largely on the basis of this issue, and his new Liberal government proceeded to accept nuclear-armed Bomarcs, with the first being deployed on 31 December 1963.[17] When the nuclear warheads were deployed, Pearson's wife, Maryon, resigned her honorary membership in the anti-nuclear weapons group, Voice of Women.[14][why?]

Canadian operational deployment of the Bomarc involved the formation of two specialized Surface/Air Missile squadrons. The first to begin operations was No. 446 SAM Squadron at RCAF Station North Bay, Ontario which was the command and control center for both squadrons.[17] With construction of the compound and related facilities completed in 1961, the squadron received its Bomarcs in 1961, without nuclear warheads.[17] The squadron became fully operational from 31 December 1963, when the nuclear warheads arrived, until disbanding on 31 March 1972. All the warheads were stored separately and under control of Detachment 1 of the USAF 425th Munitions Maintenance Squadron. During operational service, the Bomarcs were maintained on stand-by, on a 24-hour basis, but were never fired, although the squadron test-fired the missiles at Eglin AFB, Florida on annual winter retreats.[18]

No. 447 SAM Squadron operating out of RCAF Station La Macaza, Quebec was activated on 15 September 1962 although warheads were not delivered until late 1963. The squadron followed the same operational procedures as No. 446, its sister squadron. With the passage of time the operational capability of the 1950s-era Bomarc system no longer met modern requirements; the Department of National Defence deemed that the Bomarc missile defense was no longer a viable system, and ordered both squadrons to be stood down in 1972. The bunkers and ancillary facilities remain at both former sites.[19]

That would put it as adopted under Diefenbaker, then he wavered on the Nuke aspect of it, Pearson won the next election and went ahead with the Nuke warheads, then the program was finally scrapped without replacement under Trudeau.