piston vrs gas ar

i have an Adams Arms piston upgrade kit on my short barrel AR-15 and i love it. the added weight at the front of the rifle is pretty much a non issue.

the cleaning regimen is a lot simpler now. there are skids and ramps on the 1 piece bolt carrier (gas key is part of BCG) to mitigate carrier tilt and causes it to move more freely in the upper receiver.

however i did get a small amount of carrier tilt as noted by a little bit of contact at the front of the receiver extension tube on the inside. i acquired a special buffer that contacts the inside end of the BCG to allow it to ride straight back which has seemed to fix that issue.
 
Questar said:
I'm guessing that you have not handled a PWS AR Rifle... sounds like you'd be pleasantly surprised by the weight, balance and dimensions. ;)

Mark
Click to expand...
+1...It`s too bad, Mark, that some people can`t look ahead at better technologies and, instead, rely on unsubstantiated claims of "too heavy", "not accurate", "unbalanced", "too complicated (LOL)" and other rot....I swear, some people here would be happier driving a Model A Ford instead of a Lexus...Technologies change people, embrace the obvious improvements....If not, all the more for me;)...
 
DI is over 60 years old, and piston operation is over a century old... Where is this sentiment of piston being some sort of startling, establishment-upsetting development coming from?
 
There ARE isues with the piston systems being offered for the AR15s
The biggest issue is that EVERY piston system on the market at this time has proprietary parts involved. Therefore parts from X system will not work with Y system. The BIG problem I see there is that should the manufacturer of the piston system you have go out of business, which given the worlds economy right now, especially in the USA, this is a very real possibility, which then leaves the consumer with a gun that may look cool, but is strangely quiet at the range.

Gas tubes, bolts and gas rings for the GI system are all interchangeable and are made but many many makers.

The slight additional cleaning required will keep my AR type guns running GI until there is some uniformity in pistons systems that can be successfully retrofitted without issues and that have some commonality of parts.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
There ARE isues with the piston systems being offered for the AR15s
The biggest issue is that EVERY piston system on the market at this time has proprietary parts involved. Therefore parts from X system will not work with Y system. The BIG problem I see there is that should the manufacturer of the piston system you have go out of business, which given the worlds economy right now, especially in the USA, this is a very real possibility, which then leaves the consumer with a gun that may look cool, but is strangely quiet at the range.

Gas tubes, bolts and gas rings for the GI system are all interchangeable and are made but many many makers.

The slight additional cleaning required will keep my AR type guns running GI until there is some uniformity in pistons systems that can be successfully retrofitted without issues and that have some commonality of parts.
Click to expand...

+1
This is why HK is the only company I would buy a piston AR from...But that is why I have DI guns as well...:)
 
Exactly what problem will a piston upper solve for me? I haven't figured it out yet.

I've owned AR's for over 20 years. The DI system has never been an issue for me in any way shape or form. Never. Not once.

I'm not attacking piston uppers, I'm just pointing out there is no advantage for me to go to one.

I can't see myself buying a more expensive piston upper when a DI works. Period.

Advantages of DI:

(1) The DI system isn't broken.
(2) The DI parts are universal (unlike piston systems).
(3) DI is lighter.
(4) DI parts are more plentiful and cheaper.
(5) DI accuracy over a piston upper.
 
Last edited:
Throttle_monkey1 said:
The point is to reduce fouling of the action that occurs with the DI system enabling the AR to run cleaner.
Click to expand...

Might be a point '"if" you're shooting 2700 rnds a day for nine weeks straight... Using ammo loaded with propellant made of crushed up match heads.

Go ahead... "Run" you're AR without cleaning it and see how long it takes for fouling to affect function... You probably won't live long enough :)
 
Airwolf said:
+1...It`s too bad, Mark, that some people can`t look ahead at better technologies and, instead, rely on unsubstantiated claims of "too heavy", "not accurate", "unbalanced", "too complicated (LOL)" and other rot....I swear, some people here would be happier driving a Model A Ford instead of a Lexus...Technologies change people, embrace the obvious improvements....If not, all the more for me;)...
Click to expand...

Back to the future? 1938 svt38 and then the updated svt1940 which led to the piston system of the German STG44. Sorry but the piston rifle isn't new tecnology.

In terms of accuracy DI is tough to beat. I can find or even piece together a number of sub .5 moa AR rifles in various calibers for about $1600. How many accurate piston systems are there? Not many. How many in this price range? None.

The piston system offers advantages as already mentioned but accuracy isn't one of them.
 
Piston guns don't have any less fouling than direct impingement guns. Piston guns just expell that fouling in a different location. OK, you won't be scraping carbon from the bolt tail, but you will be scraping it from other parts of the gas system. Which parts just depends on the piston system's design, and even self cleaning piston systems need cleaning.

Another aspect of Piston guns, that is frequently overlooked, is that they have to vent excess gas. It could be under the handguards or just behind the front sight. Be aware of where the model you want vents.

EVERYTHING breaks eventually. How available are parts to support your gun's proprietary piston system? How available are the for parts for DI systems? Also, if you're buying or keeping a few AR15s, it's wise to have a supply of parts on hand. Commonality really helps here.

If you want to put accessories on your AR, you're going to find that it gets really complicated for piston guns. Aftermarket manufacturers make products for the largest market share. In the AR's case, that's DI systems. The percentage of Stag, Adams Arms, LWRC, Ruger and others' piston guns out there is considerably low, and they don't all have the same dimensions. That makes it very unattractive for aftermarket accessory manufacturers to divert resources to make rails for specific piston designs. Some do, but then it is the question of what the retailers keep in stock. It's like getting car parts at CT. They'll have lots of stuff for cavaliers and civics; Hummers, not so much.

Maintaining piston ARs is different from DI ARs. Some require you to remove the top handguard to access the piston and rod. If you have a bolted on FF handguard, like a DD Lite rail, or even an Omega, have fun.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. If you do decide to go with a Stag piston AR, you'll be buying a quality gun. Just be sure that what you buy is what you want.
 
Questar said:
I'm guessing that you have not handled a PWS AR Rifle... sounds like you'd be pleasantly surprised by the weight, balance and dimensions. ;)

Mark
Click to expand...

Those do look pretty slick. I noticed two main areas where I like your choice of going to a piston AR. Short barrels and 7.62x39. I would only shoot the corrosive stuff in a piston system. This plays well to the advatages of a piston system. Nice product line Mark.
 
I'm always amazed at the number of people who come out of the wood work to defend the DI system.

It's no different that the 60's when users would trash the AR 15 / M 16 DI when comparing it to the M14 / M1A.

Times are changing the DI is a good system that is just being improved upon with adding a piston.

Rich
 
667 said:
Might be a point '"if" you're shooting 2700 rnds a day for nine weeks straight... Using ammo loaded with propellant made of crushed up match heads.

Go ahead... "Run" you're AR without cleaning it and see how long it takes for fouling to affect function... You probably won't live long enough :)
Click to expand...

So the increase in stoppages I experienced with my AR the dirtier it got was a figment of my imagination. Please tell me what other experiences in my life didn't really happen.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
So the increase in stoppages I experienced with my AR the dirtier it got was a figment of my imagination. Please tell me what other experiences in my life didn't really happen.
Click to expand...

Your AR must haunted or or somethin' then...
Well...I've gone 1000's of rounds without what you'd call a real cleaning and no stoppages.

Of course I believe that the more you clean/f*** with your rifle the more trouble you'l have with it. YMMV

'Seems to be the guys with the immaculate, scratch-free, so clean you could eat off 'em AR's that have all the problems...
 
Rich LPS said:
I'm always amazed at the number of people who come out of the wood work to defend the DI system.

It's no different that the 60's when users would trash the AR 15 / M 16 DI when comparing it to the M14 / M1A.

Times are changing the DI is a good system that is just being improved upon with adding a piston.

Rich
Click to expand...

Depends on your idea of improving. I like accuracy. I like being able to buy a semi auto at $1600 that competes with a $1400 bolt gun. I'll pay that minimal amount extra for semi. The DI rifles dispel the myth that semi autos can't keep up with bolt guns.

Let's face it the adding of a piston to the AR is a stop gap measure. Tavor, Scar, ACR, ARX160 etc aren't that common but may be in the next 5 years. Those are all designed from the ground up as a piston system.

I like some of the piston offerings especially for shorties and for shooting corrosive 7.62x39 but for anything else it doesn't interest me. I'll just shoot my Tavor.
 
Hell I had a bad primer a couple weeks ago and didn't seat a mag fully back on 2009 so now I am dumping this DI junk and getting a piston gun. 2 rounds out of 40 000 = junk . d:h:

I am sure there is some tier 1 operator ready to put me in my place.............
and go.
 
Rich LPS said:
I'm always amazed at the number of people who come out of the wood work to defend the DI system.

It's no different that the 60's when users would trash the AR 15 / M 16 DI when comparing it to the M14 / M1A.

Times are changing the DI is a good system that is just being improved upon with adding a piston.

Rich
Click to expand...

...then it's no longer a DI system, it's just a short stroke gas piston. <.<
 
cormann2 said:
A friend want's to get an ar and as being a lefty I turned him on to a stag. For now they only can get a piston(8L) model. I don't really know enought about piston driven ar's to give him a honest opinion on pro or con's. Any advice would be most helpful befor he puts his $2000.00 down.Thx
Click to expand...

Wolverine has the Stag 4L rifles in stock and the 2L carbines on special order. Just saying.
 
Rich LPS said:
I'm always amazed at the number of people who come out of the wood work to defend the DI system.

It's no different that the 60's when users would trash the AR 15 / M 16 DI when comparing it to the M14 / M1A.

Times are changing the DI is a good system that is just being improved upon with adding a piston.

Rich
Click to expand...

Chuckle.

The problems in the 60's in Vietnam was not the DI system.

I have had no issues with my DI guns for over 20 years. Why should I switch now? What problem will a piston solve for me?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom