Heard a rumour that the GRC are now requiring POL/PAL #s for 'registration' of antiques when antique letters are requested. Anyone have this happen? What do you think thin edge of the wedge? Will antiques now be siezed when come across until the legal owner can produce an "antique registration" ?
POL/PAL for antiques?
- Thread starter david doyle
- Start date
Not a rumour - I had to jump through that hoop a couple weeks ago. The CFC tech I usually get letters through called me up and asked me to do a "test run" of their new process. They want you to do the online registration process even though it's an antique. All I know is that I plan on filing an Access to Information request in a couple months time to see if this information is being kept.
They always kept a copy of every letter you or we ever got. How do you think Customs confrims the letter in your parcel.
They call CFC and check out the letter.
if its Yes its OK... you get your gun!
No!... well i dont know what happens then but i doubt you get your gun unless its obviously antique.
not every parcel is the letter checked but a customs officer checked up on one of my letters cause she told me she did.
This online request only works for Antiques with antique FRT #s i think....or as far as i understand.
Not sure if its any worse than the old letters they filed cept this is a computor record when you do it on line so easyer for them to find so i was told today.
my guess is its not good for us but maby its no diffrent really i dont know
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They call CFC and check out the letter.
if its Yes its OK... you get your gun!
No!... well i dont know what happens then but i doubt you get your gun unless its obviously antique.
not every parcel is the letter checked but a customs officer checked up on one of my letters cause she told me she did.
This online request only works for Antiques with antique FRT #s i think....or as far as i understand.
Not sure if its any worse than the old letters they filed cept this is a computor record when you do it on line so easyer for them to find so i was told today.
my guess is its not good for us but maby its no diffrent really i dont know
.I work in Information Management for a federal department, which gets me thinking on reasons why they would have changed the process. The old system, calling, writing, or emailing in for a letter, was correspondence, which basically has a retention period of 1-2 years, and then it should be destroyed. With the new system it's linked to a POL or PAL, which means in now falls into the client file (or whatever they call the file they keep on each and every person that has a POL or PAL), which I'll bet is kept until after you're 6 feet in the ground.
The letter is meaningless as far as tagging the owner with the gun.
Unless the regs change we are still free to move the antique around all we want without the CFC being involved...
"What guns ????"
Unless the regs change we are still free to move the antique around all we want without the CFC being involved...
"What guns ????"
Exactly...
My official position on this if the SHTF: I don't know about you guys, but I've sold off all my antiques to some gentleman at a gun show last year. He paid me cash and I never got his name, as I don't have to ask/record that information according to the law. In fact, I vaguely remember what the gentleman even looked like. And that's all I have to say about that, over and out.
For now: personally, I think it would be cool to be able to apply & receive an antique letter automatically online (even if an RPAL number is requested). It would speed up the process and would in turn make it easier to get antiques into the country. Then, once you get it, you can always "sell it to some individual for cash"... and for any intense purposes, any and all trace of official possession is gone forever. Nothing to worry about, so let's not read in between the lines too much. The solution to this problem is uber-simple, at least with the current law that's in place. At least one thing still makes sense in this whole Liberal BS gun control system of ours.
On a personal note, I seriously doubt that the government would waste precious resources trying to confiscate or over-regulate relics that, in some cases, are more dangerous to the shooter than to whoever the gun may be aimed at loaded. Besides, when was the last time you've seen a gangbanger with an 1858 Army BP revolver?
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Besides, when was the last time you've seen a gangbanger with an 1858 Army BP revolver?
I dunno, but the reproduction antique revolvers are still restricted
You think if you type your PAL # and a guns Serial # into a police database that you are'nt 'tagged' with that gun? Wish I lived in your world. LOL. Why would they ask for your PAL if they did'nt want to associate a citizen with the iron?
If they ever ask you wont need to answer the question they will be happy to come and look for them. Keep in mind that many a registered gun owner run afoul by an ex wife, idiot nieghbour, harmless mistake etc have discovered that a 'missing' gun results in alot of repeat visits. The crown absolutely loves a missing firearm means that they can do whatever they want and no judge will say boo if they claim they are trying to recover a missing weapon. If they have a piece of paper that says you have a revolver claiming you sold it wont keep them from looking for it.
Someone somewhere has obviously gotten interested in our toys and they are a bit jealous, if not alittle worried that someone might notice that these unregistered firearms have not resulted in mayhm, anarchy or even saturday night violence.
They simply can not have a bunch of ordinary citizens acting like responsible adults. What if the general public knew that 1000s of Canadians have been shooting popcans with 45s for many, many years with out incident? Kinda makes registering a cooey 22 seem abit foolish eh.
The lines say "register" your antique in order to prove to the courts/customs that your antique is antique. If no one ever sees it you don't need to register it but if you ask the GRC techs to verify a firearm as antique they are going to register it.
How many meetings, research, strategy sessions etc (i.e resources)
did they (not the gov) put into implimenting this new antique registration system? Never underestimate the stupidity of others.
If I had one I would'nt sell a registered antique to anyone for any money unless there was someway to transfer it. hmmmmmm guess what's next kids.
The real problem is that everyone has been too lazy about thier research and asked the GRC to do grunt work that a collector a few years ago would have done for themselves. An antique is antique before a 'tech' verifies it. These techs are looking at books that are availble on gun show tables, ebay etc etc. Why you need them to look at a book and write a letter is beyond me. (unless you can't read and write. )
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David posted :
"You think if you type your PAL # and a guns Serial # into a police database that you are'nt 'tagged' with that gun? Wish I lived in your world. LOL. Why would they ask for your PAL if they did'nt want to associate a citizen with the iron?"
David , you do indeed live in my world. Your antiques at this time are free to move around all you want. Doesn't mean s**t if at the moment the serial number and your pal number are linked.
And if you are just going to stand there and turn over any of your hard earned antiques when some lacky shows up at the door to demand them then I feel for you.
Any " what guns " that may have been in my possession were traded off just yesterday.
Why on earth do people line up to be screwed ????
"You think if you type your PAL # and a guns Serial # into a police database that you are'nt 'tagged' with that gun? Wish I lived in your world. LOL. Why would they ask for your PAL if they did'nt want to associate a citizen with the iron?"
David , you do indeed live in my world. Your antiques at this time are free to move around all you want. Doesn't mean s**t if at the moment the serial number and your pal number are linked.
And if you are just going to stand there and turn over any of your hard earned antiques when some lacky shows up at the door to demand them then I feel for you.
Any " what guns " that may have been in my possession were traded off just yesterday.
Why on earth do people line up to be screwed ????
I have often wondered why anyone would request an "antique letter" from the RCMP. Courting disaster I think. Antiques require no PAL...no letter and no registration. If Canada Customs had any clue they would not need a letter as they would just do a short research and pass it through. It doesn't take and Einstein to make that decision. What is needed here is a reality check at CC and some new policies.
Any database that attempts to connect an antique firearm with a particular person is going to get hopelessly out of date very fast, given that antiques can legally change hands without any transfer and given the volume that do so. The authorities may be able to get a warrant to search your residence if they have good reason to believe you have done something illegal, but they cannot get a warrant to search your residence for the legal selling of an antique pistol or rifle. You have done nothing illegal.
The only reason I can think of to maintain an antique database, is to a) get an idea of how many and what kind of antiques are out there (which would be highly inaccurate given that many antiques owners do not request a letter) and b) to guard against issuing the same letter for multiple guns (and that too does not make sense, given that the same gun may change hands any number of times and more than one letter may be requested over the history of the gun).
Perhaps the real reason is to employ more bureaucrat accountants who believe that they are helping mankind rise to new heights of orderliness. Perhaps someday, the government will legislate a particular DNA sequence for all humans so that we can all be clones, speaking only government approved phrases, precisely following government approved schedules that fulfill the government approved meaning of life. Personally, I think the unemployment problem in Canada could be solved if the government would set up a registry for all stones larger than a man's fist found in rural areas, complete with transfer system (in case you wanted to chuck a rock into the river to see if it skips and it wound up on the other side of the property line). There is good reason for this since a) stones can and have been used as a weapon and b) stones can be valuable if they contain precious metal.
The only reason I can think of to maintain an antique database, is to a) get an idea of how many and what kind of antiques are out there (which would be highly inaccurate given that many antiques owners do not request a letter) and b) to guard against issuing the same letter for multiple guns (and that too does not make sense, given that the same gun may change hands any number of times and more than one letter may be requested over the history of the gun).
Perhaps the real reason is to employ more bureaucrat accountants who believe that they are helping mankind rise to new heights of orderliness. Perhaps someday, the government will legislate a particular DNA sequence for all humans so that we can all be clones, speaking only government approved phrases, precisely following government approved schedules that fulfill the government approved meaning of life. Personally, I think the unemployment problem in Canada could be solved if the government would set up a registry for all stones larger than a man's fist found in rural areas, complete with transfer system (in case you wanted to chuck a rock into the river to see if it skips and it wound up on the other side of the property line). There is good reason for this since a) stones can and have been used as a weapon and b) stones can be valuable if they contain precious metal.
Read the post No one is saying selling an antique is illegal.
Anyway apprently registering antiques is not a concern. So lets do this. I will send anyone who agrees a list of models/Serial numbers/cals barrels lengths. You register them and get letters. Black out your name and contact info, leave the GRC reference number send me those letters/registrations, I'll send you a thank you card and a case of beer of beer for your time and effort. I wont provide you any form of id other then a postal box.
So lets see who has the balls to register antique revolvers which they have no control over.
Anyway apprently registering antiques is not a concern. So lets do this. I will send anyone who agrees a list of models/Serial numbers/cals barrels lengths. You register them and get letters. Black out your name and contact info, leave the GRC reference number send me those letters/registrations, I'll send you a thank you card and a case of beer of beer for your time and effort. I wont provide you any form of id other then a postal box.
So lets see who has the balls to register antique revolvers which they have no control over.
Well i asked a Tec when i did this Recently (i only get RCMP Letters for importing Antiques)
She said the Antique isnt Registered the System kicks it out at the end.
But there is a Computor record of this Application of your Letter.
I think David is right to be concerned to some degree here as this is way diffrent than the previous letter requests.
We tend to forget the RCMP are in charge of the CFC.
They " Decided " 38 Merwin and Hulberts are no longer Antique all on there own after giveing out Antique letters for years on them.
All that took was a 3 Hour private Meeting behind closed doors.
Im gona look into this more. But what are they gona do for people who collect antiques that dont have a PAL or POL ?
Yes theres lotsa guys with no licence in Canada cept maby and old huntng licence and by law they can legally have buy and sell antiques. I know a couple older guys with lots of firearms experience that never got a POL even.
will they be refused RCMP Antique firearm letters?
Theres lots of Questions to ask here.
She said the Antique isnt Registered the System kicks it out at the end.
But there is a Computor record of this Application of your Letter.
I think David is right to be concerned to some degree here as this is way diffrent than the previous letter requests.
We tend to forget the RCMP are in charge of the CFC.
They " Decided " 38 Merwin and Hulberts are no longer Antique all on there own after giveing out Antique letters for years on them.
All that took was a 3 Hour private Meeting behind closed doors.
Im gona look into this more. But what are they gona do for people who collect antiques that dont have a PAL or POL ?
Yes theres lotsa guys with no licence in Canada cept maby and old huntng licence and by law they can legally have buy and sell antiques. I know a couple older guys with lots of firearms experience that never got a POL even.
will they be refused RCMP Antique firearm letters?
Theres lots of Questions to ask here.
