Powder and reloading questions
- Thread starter Shovel
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- Location
- Western Manitoba
Yes, you are correct. The Lee "Improved!" Powder Measure kit that is here has 15 different size scoops - calibrated in "cc's" - there is a slide chart in that kit that shows "cc's" volume, in grains weight equivalent, for 95 different powders. Those Lee Loader kits came with ONE scoop. Apparently, you would follow their recipe, or you are left on your own. I believe that one scoop, using the powders they listed for the bullet weights that they listed, would make a round that would go "bang" - safely. If you wanted to experiment with different powders / different charges - would need additional stuff that was NOT in the Lee Loader kit.
You can read in Modern Reloading manual, Second Edition by Richard Lee, how he suggest most accurate way to use those scoops that he sells, is to run them BACKWARDS into a pile of powder in a bowl, and then level it off by scraping with like an old credit card, to make it flat and even with the top edges. He makes some awesome claims for how accurate that you can get by using his technique to load cartridges with his scoops, instead of with a scale.
A lot of centre fire rifle reloaders will weigh powder charge and use dribbler to sneak up to a desired weight. Richard Lee (and others) seemed to think it could be done just as well for most shooting, by going on Volume, not Weight. Hence, that Lee Loader system does not use a scale - is all about powder volume thrown by that scoop - which is likely a round about way to get to a particular weight of powder - like is done with the various powder inserts when loading for shotgun - typically the shotgun reloading guy is using a volume measure - although referring to the charges as if it was in grains or drams unit of weight - but is not usually actually weighing anything when reloading shotgun.
Is now getting to be many years ago, but I seem to recall an article written by Elmer Keith, who was advocating for the volume method. As I recall, his rationale was that the recipe for various powders include a component of water or water vapour - he was arguing that the powder could "dry out" over time, so would get lighter - meaning using weight would put more powder into a case, whereas volume would stay the same amount of fill - I suspect that he was thinking / talking about some of his OKH inventions or bigger - at least in other articles he did not appear to have much use for "smaller" bores - I think in one article he opined that a 270 Win might make a good coyote cartridge. Not sure that I have heard that argument about weight versus volume made by many others - but Richard Lee and Elmer Keith were a good start to it. Generally, when it came to gun powder, that old guy Elmer Keith seemed to know his stuff - although his articles came across as if he was very opinionated, and quite a few people disagreed with many of his ideas - I do not think that he cared.
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I'll see if I can find the Modern Reloading manual. Got both the scale and the scoops. Cant see using the scale for each load. Going to use the scale to confirm the volume then do 20 or whatever with the scoop. Looking forward to playing with the press. Probably spend hours figuring it out lol. Those valve looking spring loaded dies look interesting
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I suspect most of that shotgun tooling is associated with a reloading step - I never used it, so do not know how it works - but you have to de-prime, re-size, re-prime, insert powder, insert wad, insert shot, start crimp, finish crimp and probably a couple of steps that I forgot. As mentioned above - as if that system requires you to swap out tooling for each different step?
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Re-reading Post #82 - I had powder charge on my brain - you will have to figure out same thing for the shot charge - so, if recipe calls for 1 1/4 ounce of shot, that is not 1 1/8 ounce or 1 3/8 ounce - I do not know what the plus / minus tolerance is for a load that calls for 1 1/4 ounce of shot, but you will likely have to find that out. And if you are weighing it out on a powder scale, you will likely have to translate "ounces" to "grains".
Got the Modern Reloading manual, Second Edition by Richard Lee coming. Not a lot of reviews are 5 star. Picked up the Lyman shotshell manual today. And found a surprise in the mail box. The Lee case trimmer that was turned back at the border a week or two ago arrived today. Guess I'll have 2 spares are good
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I have seen pictures of home made "dippers" - maybe to measure shot? - was some that I am sure were a brass cartridge case - wrap a wire around to make a handle and solder it - I think the internal volume is set by trial and error - what weight of shot or powder does that hold - file top edge down to make smaller, if it holds too much. Would be possible, I suppose to make a "double ender" - one cavity on one end for the shot load, and other cavity on other end for the powder load. 50BMG or 458 Win Mag would be pretty good sized internal volumes, I think? I often wondered about taking a 3/4" round bar - aluminum or steel - drill into end with 5/8" bit - trial and error to find depth that contains the weight of shot that you want. I would think similar could be done for a cavity for powder?
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Yes, I noticed that - I suspect that Richard Lee guy kind of "marches to his own drummer" - most definitely has ideas that are counter to "main stream" thinking - many people do not agree with what he writes - but I think he is NOT always wrong - sort of have to pick and chose what you can get from his writings - is at least a good "balance" to what you will read in Lyman or Sierra manuals - then balance that with your own experiences, to try stuff.
I have a couple of shelves of reloading manuals . On one shelf there are both editions of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee. The how to section is good , but the real advantage to the manual is putting All the powder companies data in one place. Say you are reloading for your new Tilka 6.5x55 , an American powder will publish data at a lower pressure for fear of those old Norwegian Krags military surplus, where as European powder company will publish data for stronger actions. You then can take the European velocities as a max. Here a chronograph becomes a pressure guage. This is the science to reloading.
Powder companies are changing their sources and thus the formulations, so data needs to be fairly recent. Powder companies just package.
Powder companies are changing their sources and thus the formulations, so data needs to be fairly recent. Powder companies just package.
I have 8-10 reloading manuals (maybe more), and Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition is the one that I spend the most time reading (and re-reading). There are A LOT of very vocal Lee Reloading haters out there, and I think it's just fashionable to talk trash about Lee stuff in many reloading circles. Being so successful as well as the most affordable always draws that kind of response, regardless of quality. Like how Savage rifles were treated 20 years ago...
As potashminer says, use multiple references, get some experience, and decide what you like. I have no hesitation recommending the Lee manual as a first reloading manual. No problem with it as a "first and only" reloading manual, either.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Multiple sources is a good thing! I had helped a younger fellow who had inherited a 7mm STW rifle - he went online to Nosler website and found load data for H1000 powder (I think) - there was multiple issues - he was having a hard time to both close and then to open that bolt after firing - first clue for me was that he could not slide a bullet into the mouth of a fired cartridge. That turned out to be a custom barrel with a throat cut smaller than current SAAMI standard - so likely required parent 8 mm Rem Mag necks to be thinned before using them. Then, I got looking at the Start Load that he was using from that website - was same Start Load as given in Nosler 9 book that I have. But was HIGHER than the MAX load that Nosler gave in previous editions, and from most other powder maker's / powder supplier's manuals - we discovered the Nosler website table for 160 grain bullets and H1000 powder was exactly the same numbers as they gave for a lighter bullet - seemed to me a "cut and paste" type of error - I did contact Nosler - never heard a thing back from them. But that episode taught me to not rely on ONE source of information - for stuff like that.
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If you use it for one gun, yes
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Technically, most all re-sizing dies will re-size the neck. Full length sizing will scrunch down the body as well, if it needs it, and then "Small Base" sizing dies will scrunch down the body even more - especially near the base. Then some people will also use a "body die" which does not touch the shoulder, nor does it do the neck either, I think. Almost all my rifle reloading is done with Full Length sizer dies - for some rifles, I do not screw the die down to the shell holder - is a way to "cheat" for a longer than normal chamber. As in Post #99 - if your rifle is within SAAMI spec, and if you follow maker's instructions for setting the FLS die, you will get safe rounds to fire. Was a thing with those earlier mentioned Lee Loaders - they only do neck size - do not touch the body or shoulder - so used on either brand new unfired brass, or rounds that were previously fired in your chamber - somebody else's fired cases that are loaded in a Lee Loader may not fit into your gun, unless that other chamber is smaller than yours - is perhaps the advantage of FLS dies - does not matter where it was previously fired - all are going to get resized to be very close to the same and will probably fit into any rifle of that chambering - although you will often read to use small base sizing dies if you re-load for a lever action, pump action or a semi-auto - they just do not have the camming force going in or coming out that is possible with a bolt action. And there will no doubt be exceptions to that.
