I have never seen a performance difference, except for the lot#s that turned out to be defective.
Primer Choice
- Thread starter Ganderite
- Start date
I have never seen a performance difference, except for the lot#s that turned out to be defective.
Yes, I did.
The first one is a Vihtavouri small pistol. They must charge those things with TNT. Insane power. I have to reduce the powder charge a lot if I use those primers.
If you reload you are capapble of priming a case and firing it with the lights off. Do your own test and draw your own conclusions.
Dogleg, thank you for posting those UK test reports. Excellent content.
I used to have data for thousands of rounds of test ammo. Each shot was captured with a pressure trace, that was kept on file. When considering primers, we looked at the ES and SD and could also look at the trace. You can see an immediate 10,000 psi from the primer, then a slight drop until the powder ignites and builds pressure.
He commented on hearing a "click-bang" when trying the small primer with the ball powder (CFE). I had a similar expereince loading 100 gr 8mm bullets in a 8x57 with a medium charge of ball powder. All 20 shots were a definite click---bang.
This got me thinking that accuracy required positive ignition well above the click-bang setting. Years alter i ran into accuracy and occasional misfires with ball powder over 55 gr bullets in 223. I solved the problem with a crimp and magnum primer.
He touches on the need to deburr flash holes. I once ran a set of 20 round tests through the lab and tested boxes of ammo that had various types of case prep.
The only prep that showed a significant improvement was deburring the inside of the flash hole on cases that had punched flash holes. Lapua would not need this treatment.
I used to have data for thousands of rounds of test ammo. Each shot was captured with a pressure trace, that was kept on file. When considering primers, we looked at the ES and SD and could also look at the trace. You can see an immediate 10,000 psi from the primer, then a slight drop until the powder ignites and builds pressure.
He commented on hearing a "click-bang" when trying the small primer with the ball powder (CFE). I had a similar expereince loading 100 gr 8mm bullets in a 8x57 with a medium charge of ball powder. All 20 shots were a definite click---bang.
This got me thinking that accuracy required positive ignition well above the click-bang setting. Years alter i ran into accuracy and occasional misfires with ball powder over 55 gr bullets in 223. I solved the problem with a crimp and magnum primer.
He touches on the need to deburr flash holes. I once ran a set of 20 round tests through the lab and tested boxes of ammo that had various types of case prep.
The only prep that showed a significant improvement was deburring the inside of the flash hole on cases that had punched flash holes. Lapua would not need this treatment.
SO BOO that chart shows the Fed 215 MATCH is #1 even over the Fed 215 MAGNUM ! I am surprised ! RJ
What is "power average"? Weight?
It was a shop-built fixture to measure "relative" power - thrust - between different primers. The actual score means nothing as it is just a comparison between the different types.
http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm
OK. I have both 210 and 210M on hand. I will load some in 45 pistol cases and shoot them in the dark tonight to see if I can see a difference.
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
Ganderite, which primer is which in the pictures, top to bottom? Just curious at this point. Also, in your experience, is there such a thing as "too hot" of a primer? If so, what could be possible detrimental effects? Thanks!
I deliberately did not label the pictures.
The only time I have found a primer to be too hot was the Vitavouri small pistol. It boosted ordinary loads to over max.
I developed loads for those primers and have never bought any more of them.
If I ever load with damp, oily powder, I will dig them out.
I use standard primers for everything except ball powder in rifle cases and H110 and 296 in pistol cases.
If I had to use a magnum primer in an ordinary load I would not hesitate. I might drop a tenth of a grain if it was a max load. If it was match ammo, I would re-develop the load (or run out and buy some more standard primers).
The only time I have found a primer to be too hot was the Vitavouri small pistol. It boosted ordinary loads to over max.
I developed loads for those primers and have never bought any more of them.
If I ever load with damp, oily powder, I will dig them out.
I use standard primers for everything except ball powder in rifle cases and H110 and 296 in pistol cases.
If I had to use a magnum primer in an ordinary load I would not hesitate. I might drop a tenth of a grain if it was a max load. If it was match ammo, I would re-develop the load (or run out and buy some more standard primers).
Hey Jim! The guy that ran the test used 100 of each type and averaged the results. Given the results are so close I doubt there is any real-world difference between the regular Fed 215 and the match version as both use the same type and amount of priming mixture and metallic additives.
I personally don't have a lot of use for the Federal Magnum primers as I mainly shoot cartridges that eat under 80 grains of powder. With that said during the primer shortages a few years ago I grabbed 2 cartons of Federal 215 - 1000 primers each - from a fellow who was getting out of shooting. What I found was that with 30-06 class cartridges I had to drop 1 or 2 grains of powder to maintain the velocity developed with standard Winchester WLR primers which themself are quite "hot".
Wow! A huge difference. That suggests that the Federal Magnum has 2 scoops of compound.
I don't know how much compound they use but the Federal 215 was designed to reliably ignite up to 120 grains of powder - or about double a typical 30-06 load - in the big Weatherby Cartridges. I will have to try your darkness test to see how long a fireball is produced in an empty case. I suspect it should be substantial.
I thought I would dig out the Federal standard and magnum rifle primers and take the pictures. I have several cases of Federal primers of various type, but not a single package of magnum large Rifle.
So I took some others and shot them in a revolver and took pictures.
Winchester Standard large rifle and Winchester LR Magnum.
Winchester Magnum
Federal Standard Large Rifle
CCI Standard Large Rifle
WOLF (Russian) Large Rifle
I think you can see that some primers look hotter than others.
So I took some others and shot them in a revolver and took pictures.
Winchester Standard large rifle and Winchester LR Magnum.
Winchester Magnum
Federal Standard Large Rifle
CCI Standard Large Rifle
WOLF (Russian) Large Rifle
I think you can see that some primers look hotter than others.
Interesting. I have a new batch of CCi250's that I had some trouble with in my 450-400, igniting, but not igniting the powder. Picked up some F215's, no more issues. I watched a vid series on You Tube last week, search Johnny's Reloading Bench hangfires, they are in his 6.5 Creedmore series. He has a few vids in there where he had major hangfire and misfire trouble, and he pursued it, think it 4 vids, maybe 5. Quite the series to watch. All about using the small primer brass on the 6.5 and cold weather and various powders to boot, it is interesting. I know for myself I changed from CCI to Rem primers in my 32-40 w/ AA9 loads, it made a big difference with cast bullets at 200 yds. One winter I went up to shoot, same old load, nothing changed, same lot of primers, hangfires galore, it was about 30 below. I didn't shoot it again after that, never did figure out what happened that day. Check out the vids in that 6.5 series, worth watching, he recorded all his tests, you can hear the pin hitting the primers.
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RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
Thank you for the comparison Ganderite, very informative!
